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50 points, 3 hours ago, not on front page. Definitely nothing screwy going on here. Regardless, here's the link to the memorandum: https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.

50 points, 3 hours ago, not on front page. Definitely nothing screwy going on here. Regardless, here's the link to the memorandum: https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/785495/doc1.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/7854... My favorite part: >1.d) This agreement is not intended to create any legally enforceable rights and shall not be construed to be either an international agreement or a legally binding instrument according to international law. Hey Israel, we're totally against you violating the constitutional rights of American citizens --to say nothing of the human rights of all people-- but it's not like this is a "legally binding instrument" or anything. Just don't be bad, m'kay? M'kay.

ferdo 13y ago
There was a report about 12 years ago on the Israeli company Amdocs that is enlightening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20Naj176M0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20Naj176M0 Amdocs "helped" install the phone lines in the White House in 1997.
- scoot 13y ago
  Amdocs' main product is billing software, so it aggregates raw Call Data Records (CDRs) from telco switches, and turns them into customer and peer billing data amongst other things.
  - segacontroller 13y ago
    Just like Narus' main product was aggregating raw Internet Transmission Records from telco switches and turning them into customer and peer billing data for network usage?
    - jpatokal 13y ago
      No, Amdocs does billing software, which is precisely as unexciting as it sounds. CDRs contain a motherload of metadata (who called whom, how long etc), but have zero content about the actual content of the call, and they're generated by the other systems that feed into the billing system so their contents can't be changed.
inzax 13y ago
Its the HN Gods.. I tried to ask the question a few hours ago and it got killed.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6366987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6366987 EDIT That link is DELETED. Here was the TEXT. I tried to submit a NSA* story a couple days ago about how the N S A(1) is snooping on iPhone that directly related to the FSF article(2) today while connecting it to something I read on HN 2 years ago...(3). While it isn't startup news, it does directly show and relate to EFF that the iPhone can't be a trusted platform. It seems that you directly removed the ability to add comments as well as see articles that are related to any N S A information. Why? Are you trying to control HN and dictate the direction? (1) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/nsa-steve-jobs_n_3895375.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/nsa-steve-jobs_n_38... (2) https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement-on-new-iphone-models-from-apple https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement-... (3) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562
- brymaster 13y ago
  So why didn't you post this information in the relevant FSF thread yesterday? There was an entire thread of commenters defending Apple to the bitter end.
- sfx 13y ago
  I wish there was a more active discussion on the NSA being able to tap into any phone to access users data. That HuffingtonPost link also linked to a story with a bit more detail[1]. >"The U.S. National Security Agency is able to crack protective measures on iPhones, BlackBerry and Android devices, giving it access to users' data on all major smartphones....in which the agencies describe setting up dedicated teams for each type of phone as part of their effort to gather intelligence on potential threats such as terrorists." This is news to me, I assume they could pull any data from an iPhone/Android/Blackberry, maybe even activate the camera if "need" be. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/08/nsa-smartphone-der-spiegel_n_3889713.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/08/nsa-smartphone-der-...
clobber2 13y ago
Why is it that some people are flagging these stories? The NSA surveillance topic is highly relevant as it intersects with technology. What does plugging ones ears and looking the other way solve? Maybe if these people are so 'sick' of hearing about it they should do something to stop it. Or is willful ignorance bliss?
- ewillbefull 13y ago
  Just because people don't want to hear about it on Hacker News doesn't mean they're trying to avoid the topic. I read about it everywhere else I go: it's a topic on google news for me along with drones and a couple other things, on reddit there are plenty of subreddits that discuss NSA stuff daily. Not saying all NSA stuff is off-topic, just that it's irritating to open a thread about something interesting and wade through tangential political discussion. We used to punt that stuff elsewhere and for good reason.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  I agree with you that it's relevant to technical news, but I don't think it has anything to do with "plugging ears" or "willful ignorance." I don't flag them (it's pointless I think), but I think the people flagging these stories are doing so because they're tired of hearing about it, and because one interpretation of the HN Guidelines supports it.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Flagging to often will cause you to very quickly lose the ability to flag at all (the 'flag' link is removed for you entirely). If people are flagging heavily and are allowed to continue to do so, then it seems to me that HN is in some form approving of their flags.
- biot 13y ago
  > The NSA surveillance topic is highly relevant as it > intersects with technology. Do you realize that "intersects with technology" isn't the criteria for judging what material is on-topic for HN?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- brymaster 13y ago
  Have to remember that it's their rules as HN isn't a democracy by any means (not saying I agree with it). It's not open, it's not bias-free (see the top level domain name of the company that owns this site?), it has strict moderation and has its own shills and sock puppets like any forum (not saying these are approved by HN).
  - sinak 13y ago
    I just started a poll on this issue here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6369530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6369530
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Note: I'm not flagging down any of these stories, but I think there's some "spook fatigue" settling in with so many NSA stories, with only a fraction of them saying anything new.
  - kaonashi 13y ago
    This particular story seems to represent something very new and very troubling.
    - olalonde 13y ago
      For what it's worth, at this point I simply assume the NSA is as evil as it can possibly be. There are really only a few revelations that I would still find surprising and deem HN worthy (for example, they secretly solved P=NP or have developed technology for mind reading).
      - frank_boyd 13y ago
        The thing is, people forget very quickly, when things like the latest iPhone happen. Also, people have to understand this: With the government spying like this, there will be no democracy left, very soon. It's as simple and frightening as that.

ferdo 13y ago

There was a report about 12 years ago on the Israeli company Amdocs that is enlightening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20Naj176M0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20Naj176M0 Amdocs "helped" install the phone lines in the White House in 1997.

scoot 13y ago
Amdocs' main product is billing software, so it aggregates raw Call Data Records (CDRs) from telco switches, and turns them into customer and peer billing data amongst other things.
- segacontroller 13y ago
  Just like Narus' main product was aggregating raw Internet Transmission Records from telco switches and turning them into customer and peer billing data for network usage?
  - jpatokal 13y ago
    No, Amdocs does billing software, which is precisely as unexciting as it sounds. CDRs contain a motherload of metadata (who called whom, how long etc), but have zero content about the actual content of the call, and they're generated by the other systems that feed into the billing system so their contents can't be changed.

inzax 13y ago

Its the HN Gods.. I tried to ask the question a few hours ago and it got killed.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6366987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6366987 EDIT That link is DELETED. Here was the TEXT. I tried to submit a NSA* story a couple days ago about how the N S A(1) is snooping on iPhone that directly related to the FSF article(2) today while connecting it to something I read on HN 2 years ago...(3). While it isn't startup news, it does directly show and relate to EFF that the iPhone can't be a trusted platform. It seems that you directly removed the ability to add comments as well as see articles that are related to any N S A information. Why? Are you trying to control HN and dictate the direction? (1) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/nsa-steve-jobs_n_3895375.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/nsa-steve-jobs_n_38... (2) https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement-on-new-iphone-models-from-apple https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement-... (3) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562

brymaster 13y ago
So why didn't you post this information in the relevant FSF thread yesterday? There was an entire thread of commenters defending Apple to the bitter end.
sfx 13y ago
I wish there was a more active discussion on the NSA being able to tap into any phone to access users data. That HuffingtonPost link also linked to a story with a bit more detail[1]. >"The U.S. National Security Agency is able to crack protective measures on iPhones, BlackBerry and Android devices, giving it access to users' data on all major smartphones....in which the agencies describe setting up dedicated teams for each type of phone as part of their effort to gather intelligence on potential threats such as terrorists." This is news to me, I assume they could pull any data from an iPhone/Android/Blackberry, maybe even activate the camera if "need" be. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/08/nsa-smartphone-der-spiegel_n_3889713.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/08/nsa-smartphone-der-...

clobber2 13y ago

Why is it that some people are flagging these stories? The NSA surveillance topic is highly relevant as it intersects with technology. What does plugging ones ears and looking the other way solve? Maybe if these people are so 'sick' of hearing about it they should do something to stop it. Or is willful ignorance bliss?

ewillbefull 13y ago
Just because people don't want to hear about it on Hacker News doesn't mean they're trying to avoid the topic. I read about it everywhere else I go: it's a topic on google news for me along with drones and a couple other things, on reddit there are plenty of subreddits that discuss NSA stuff daily. Not saying all NSA stuff is off-topic, just that it's irritating to open a thread about something interesting and wade through tangential political discussion. We used to punt that stuff elsewhere and for good reason.
dylangs1030 13y ago
I agree with you that it's relevant to technical news, but I don't think it has anything to do with "plugging ears" or "willful ignorance." I don't flag them (it's pointless I think), but I think the people flagging these stories are doing so because they're tired of hearing about it, and because one interpretation of the HN Guidelines supports it.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Flagging to often will cause you to very quickly lose the ability to flag at all (the 'flag' link is removed for you entirely). If people are flagging heavily and are allowed to continue to do so, then it seems to me that HN is in some form approving of their flags.
biot 13y ago
> The NSA surveillance topic is highly relevant as it > intersects with technology. Do you realize that "intersects with technology" isn't the criteria for judging what material is on-topic for HN?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

brymaster 13y ago
Have to remember that it's their rules as HN isn't a democracy by any means (not saying I agree with it). It's not open, it's not bias-free (see the top level domain name of the company that owns this site?), it has strict moderation and has its own shills and sock puppets like any forum (not saying these are approved by HN).
- sinak 13y ago
  I just started a poll on this issue here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6369530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6369530
MartinCron 13y ago
Note: I'm not flagging down any of these stories, but I think there's some "spook fatigue" settling in with so many NSA stories, with only a fraction of them saying anything new.
- kaonashi 13y ago
  This particular story seems to represent something very new and very troubling.
  - olalonde 13y ago
    For what it's worth, at this point I simply assume the NSA is as evil as it can possibly be. There are really only a few revelations that I would still find surprising and deem HN worthy (for example, they secretly solved P=NP or have developed technology for mind reading).
    - frank_boyd 13y ago
      The thing is, people forget very quickly, when things like the latest iPhone happen. Also, people have to understand this: With the government spying like this, there will be no democracy left, very soon. It's as simple and frightening as that.