4 ms·
Forget the resume, kill on the cover letter
- ankhmoop 17y agoAnother ridiculous anecdotal extrapolation from 37signals. When I'm hiring, I only look to the cover letter to determine whether the candidate is personally interested in the job, not whether they're qualified for it. Might I suggest a new title: "If you want to work at 37signals, forget the resume, kill on the cover letter."
- axod 17y agoReally does sound like a fun place to work. Just be careful you don't write '37 signals' anywhere with a space! Taking self importance to a whole new level. http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1088-how-not-to-apply-for-a-job http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1088-how-not-to-apply-for...
- ajju 17y agoThat post alone makes it seem like a little less fun place to work.
- tptacek 17y agoI'm confused. What's ridiculous about exhorting people to write kick-ass cover letters?
- ankhmoop 17y agoThe "forget the resume" part, or perhaps the "we don't believe in years of irrelevance" -- they believe 6 months and 5 years of experience are roughly the same when it comes to productivity. http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/833-years-of-irrelevance http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/833-years-of-irrelevance By all means, write a good cover letter -- but be aware that apparently unlike 37signals, some hiring managers do actually skim resumes when making the first cut. I'd feel irresponsible not doing so. "Write a good cover letter", however, is not particularly novel or link-bait worthy advice.
- gensym 17y agoI don't understand this complaint. Of course this article is about how to get hired at 37signals and companies that hire in a similar manner. Why on earth would DHH bother writing about how to get hired at companies that don't have hiring practices similar to those of his company? I'd hope that most readers understand that companies are not all the same in their hiring and what may get you hired at one will not get you hired at another.
- eli 17y agoIt's easy to tell at a glance if someone took the time to research your company and write a real cover letter versus the standard mail merge (or, worse, no cover letter). Then, perhaps I'm biased -- I was later told that it was my cover letter that got me my current job (and no, I don't work at 37signals).
- tptacek 17y agoPeople are going to pile on to DHH for again suggesting that his experience represents the whole universe of job hunt circumstances, but if you can hold just two thoughts in your head at a time, there's a kernel of valuable information in here. No matter where you are, the actual words in your actual resume aren't going to get you hired (although the roles they describe might, and bad words can clearly get you un-hired). He's right about that. More importantly, 9 out of 10 smart people I've interviewed are positively meek in their resumes and during interviews. They don't stand out at all. What's worse, they make no effort outside of the "official channel", dutifully submitting resumes into the HTML form, talking to the HR person, waiting for us to call back. DHH is right. If you're just going to play by the HR rules, the cover letter is your one chance to position yourself ahead of the 9 other candidates with similar resumes. It's not the only thing to do, but there's literally no downside to putting an effort in.
- bena 17y agoI think you are on the right track here. Getting a job isn't about doing all the right things, but doing the least amount of wrong things.
- dschobel 17y agoYou're missing the point of most of the objections here. If the article were just "Have an awesome cover letter and be super enthusiastic!", that would be one thing. What most people are objecting to is the "forget the resume" part of the headline.
- hypermatt 17y agoI have never once seen a real hiring manager look at these, most good candidates aren't going to be writing ones specific to your company. I'm sure its nice to be 37S.
- tptacek 17y agoIf you're talking to a "hiring manager" who "doesn't read cover letters", you've already conceded the game. Also, speak for yourself --- I read cover letters in advance, and often don't even bother with the resume until the candidate is in front of me. I have no idea why you think most good candidates won't be "writing specific cover letters for your company". Top talent doesn't shotgun resumes across 100 companies; they pick places they think they'll like, have a reason for doing it, and do everything they can to get the best possible offer.
- jawngee 17y agoWhy would you not read their resume before the interview? I spend a good 30-45 minutes building a list of questions based entirely on the contents of their resume. I couldn't imagine just looking at a resume and then interviewing a person off the cuff. Seems a little rude.
- menloparkbum 17y agoIt is rude, but this happens a lot, especially at smaller startups. The chain of communication is usually a bit chaotic and most people are very busy. Sometimes people get pulled into the interview at the last minute, and so on and so forth...
- tptacek 17y agoWhy would you interview someone based on their resume? Why wouldn't you take 30-45 minutes across all your candidates to build a list of questions that were actually relevant to your business? The cart seems to be dragging the horse here.
- kscaldef 17y ago
- dmix 17y agoWhats the appropriate attire for an interview at a tech startup? Somewhere in between a suit and jeans/tee?
- menloparkbum 17y agoBlue jeans, a polo shirt and converse or vans are the only thing I've worn to work or an interview since 1999. I've also interviewed a ton of people and the only time I've noticed what people are wearing are if they were wearing "dress clothes" or they had one of those weird burning man goth cyber warrior outfits on.
- olefoo 17y ago"burning man goth cyber warrior outfits" I think I've just discovered the new office dress code.
- tptacek 17y agoBusiness casual. A tie says "BigCo refugee". A t-shirt and jeans probably won't neg you, but it can in some places.
- kscaldef 17y agoAnd remember, you can always ask the HR rep setting up the interview what the typical dress at the company is.
- tptacek 17y agoDanger-Will-Robbins. If you're applying at a VC-funded company, there's a decent chance the HR person has no idea what the engineering culture is actually like. Don't wear the tie.
- kscaldef 17y agoIn every company I've worked for (pre-money startups, post-money startups, small public companies, 10000+ behemoths), the HR tech recruiters actually interacted with the team frequently and had a good idea how they dressed and behaved.
- antidaily 17y agoHighlights a larger issue - the way we hire people is broken. Resumes and cover letters only give you enough info to know the person may or may not be qualified for the job. Are they a fit with culture at your company? Are they going to leave in a year to pursue their REAL passion?
- tptacek 17y agoThat's what interviews and references are for.
- antidaily 17y agoExcept I don't have time to interview 50 candidates.
- arebop 17y agoMaybe you could find a way to make time, perhaps by starting with a shorter initial phone screen. Interactive dialog has much better predictive power compared to resume+coverletter in my experience.
- iron_ball 17y agoAnd people constantly point out that even an interview is no predictor of job performance.
- MikeMacMan 17y agoHo, and indeed, Hum.
- PebblesRox 17y agoDoesn't decimate literally mean to reduce by ten percent? Literally decimating the pool would mean eliminating 7 applicants :)
- thras 17y agoI just did a quick order of magnitude calculation to see how many times that exact comment has been written in response to a story on the internet containing the word "decimate," and I came up with 10^7.
- biotech 17y agoI have no problem with people using the word "decimate" loosely. It's the word "literally" that gets me. If you say, "I literally have to decimate the pool", then it should be the literal definition of decimate you're talking about.
- eli 17y agoThe word "literally" literally means "word by word, letter by letter." So I assume that since you're such a stickler, you only use it to talk about transcribing the scripture... right? Or, put another way, get over yourself. Language evolves. And "literally" has been used in ways you would consider "wrong" for several hundred years now.
- PebblesRox 17y agoI wasn't using the word "literally" literally, but that's okay because I never said I was. I guess I'm a stickler because I think words work better when they have strong, precise meanings. Over time, these meanings tend to get watered down, and I think that's a shame.
- eli 17y agoThat was my point: you were using a watered down version of literally that, over time, came to be an agreed upon definition. That's just how it goes.
- paul9290 17y agoHow about kill it on your Google search for your name?
- dschobel 17y agoI for one don't care if I'm working with someone with the all the personality of a door-knob. If someone knows their shit and doesn't piss other people off, that's enough personality for me. In this case since it was a design position I can understand why they want someone wacky and zany and original, but if I saw this behavior in a programmer applicant I would figure they had forgotten to take their meds that morning.
- donaq 17y agoProgramming is a design job. It's just a different kind of design.