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Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Jus

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not agree with the OP, does not mean I agree with the opposite. Just like how if you're not with the US on Iraq does not mean you are with the terrorists. My question "how do you know?" is simply a thought experiment showing the fallacy in the OP's assertion that in fact Africans are not more corrupt or warlike than anyone else. It is totally possible they are. He does not know, nor do I. The point is that he doesn't know anymore than I do. I am not, and have never, stated Africans are more corrupt or warlike either! If I did in fact, state this, please point this out otherwise I will be inadvertently spreading racist beliefs (which I do not. I am totally on your side with this. Let's work together okay?). The OP is the one who made a generalization (Africans are not more corrupt or warlike than other people). All I did was question his generalization. He could have also said "Africans are not any more black than other people." That one is easier to verify that he is wrong, so if I pointed that out by saying "how do you know?" I would have gotten many more up votes. By ignoring the possibility that Africans might have genetic, cultural, societal, or other factors causing the corruption and "warlike" is doing a disservice to the issue, reason, and scientific method.

Joe-Z 13y ago
I really shouldn't be getting into this, but whatever: Let's assume that you believe that "all men are born equal" and you know for yourself that you are not a war-mongering, savaging monster and that this are also not typical traits for other people around you. Then, from your believe that "alle men are born equal" it's just far more likely that people in africa would default to a similar, peaceful, state like you and the thing that drives people in african war-torn countries must be outside factors. (Also, let's be realistic and just admit that it's mostly just racism if you state something negative about a particular group, and not when it's something positive)
- chrischen 13y ago
  First of all, pointing out something that's "negative" is not necessarily racism. "Negative" is also subjective. For example: Japanese people are short. In the West (and actually most of the world), people would find it a negative statement. If it is negative (that somehow being short is bad), stating this fact is not racism. This is not to mention the fact that it's subjective whether being short is negative or not. If you look at chad_oliver's post, you'll see that he claims (and provides a source) for the fact that Africans are statistically the most corrupt. This fact is not racism, nor is bringing it up racism, as long as you're just using the facts for what they are: facts. Secondly, I NEVER made any claims about Africans being more corrupt than other people, or being war mongerers... so every argument about that you've made is moot. If I did make such a statement, please QUOTE me! Finally, "all men are born equal" is false. The intent of the statement is that all men should be given equal opportunity under the law as if all men are born equal. The statement does not mean that all men are literally created equal. You can easily see this if you're not color blind. Asian people look different from black people, and white people look different as well. And it's not much of a logical leap to conclude that genetic, cultural, and societal differences don't just end at skin color. If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. His belief that "all men are born equal" is fallacious, and that's what I was trying to point out by suggesting the opposite might also be true.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. You have profoundly misunderstood why Colbert does that bit. He's parodying racists who say they are colorblind in order to ignore white privilege. Racial colorblindness is the modern version of, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." The bit is commentary on structural racism in society. If you don't believe that is Colbert's point, consider that Colbert's character is a parody of bombastic conservative talk-show hosts like Rush Limbaugh and O'Rielly. Whenever he does something obviously funny he's parodying conservative stereotypes not well-meaning but superficial liberal hippie types, and racism is a major conservative stereotype. Here is an examination of how racial colorblindness affects racial minorities: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorb... And here is some discussion of the principles via wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race-blind#Criticism_of_color_blindness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race-blind#Criticism_of_color_...
some_guy_there 13y ago
> He does not know, nor do I. Yes, but there are level of beliefs that can be assigned to arbitrary hypothesis. Consider the fact(s) that 1) the scientific consensus agrees that most human being are almost equivalent in skills and intelligence to form decent social structures 2) Africa has a billion plus human being, the scale at which laws of large number dictates that their overall behavior should be close to human mean. 3) there have been advanced cultures in Africa in past, as recent as just before European colonization. Keeping that in mind, reasonable people would agree that Africans are not inferior merely due to continent they are born upon. Is this the scientific level of proof that matches the 5 sigma precision coming out of LHC? No. But it is reasonable to expect so, and no proper scientific resources are being devoted to this micro-study, after most of Science has already has rejected idea that one large group of humans could be statistically inferior to other large group. As a side note, you might not have realized it, but similar arguments have been used (and are still being used) by people who want to raise a rhetorical question, like how do you know that evolution explains x,y,z fact? More often than not, these people do not have intention of genuine questioning but rather want to show that ignorance of one detailed thought experiment is enough to discredit entire field of scientific evidence. It is thus not surprising that people would think that you belong to one of that group.
- chrischen 13y ago
  It doesn't matter what's probable or not. I never claimed any specific conclusion about Africans. I only claimed the OP's assertions that it must not be some intrinsic factor to be false. It is literally as simple as that.

Joe-Z 13y ago

I really shouldn't be getting into this, but whatever: Let's assume that you believe that "all men are born equal" and you know for yourself that you are not a war-mongering, savaging monster and that this are also not typical traits for other people around you. Then, from your believe that "alle men are born equal" it's just far more likely that people in africa would default to a similar, peaceful, state like you and the thing that drives people in african war-torn countries must be outside factors. (Also, let's be realistic and just admit that it's mostly just racism if you state something negative about a particular group, and not when it's something positive)

chrischen 13y ago
First of all, pointing out something that's "negative" is not necessarily racism. "Negative" is also subjective. For example: Japanese people are short. In the West (and actually most of the world), people would find it a negative statement. If it is negative (that somehow being short is bad), stating this fact is not racism. This is not to mention the fact that it's subjective whether being short is negative or not. If you look at chad_oliver's post, you'll see that he claims (and provides a source) for the fact that Africans are statistically the most corrupt. This fact is not racism, nor is bringing it up racism, as long as you're just using the facts for what they are: facts. Secondly, I NEVER made any claims about Africans being more corrupt than other people, or being war mongerers... so every argument about that you've made is moot. If I did make such a statement, please QUOTE me! Finally, "all men are born equal" is false. The intent of the statement is that all men should be given equal opportunity under the law as if all men are born equal. The statement does not mean that all men are literally created equal. You can easily see this if you're not color blind. Asian people look different from black people, and white people look different as well. And it's not much of a logical leap to conclude that genetic, cultural, and societal differences don't just end at skin color. If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. His belief that "all men are born equal" is fallacious, and that's what I was trying to point out by suggesting the opposite might also be true.
- Amadou 13y ago
  If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. You have profoundly misunderstood why Colbert does that bit. He's parodying racists who say they are colorblind in order to ignore white privilege. Racial colorblindness is the modern version of, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." The bit is commentary on structural racism in society. If you don't believe that is Colbert's point, consider that Colbert's character is a parody of bombastic conservative talk-show hosts like Rush Limbaugh and O'Rielly. Whenever he does something obviously funny he's parodying conservative stereotypes not well-meaning but superficial liberal hippie types, and racism is a major conservative stereotype. Here is an examination of how racial colorblindness affects racial minorities: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorb... And here is some discussion of the principles via wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race-blind#Criticism_of_color_blindness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race-blind#Criticism_of_color_...

some_guy_there 13y ago

> He does not know, nor do I. Yes, but there are level of beliefs that can be assigned to arbitrary hypothesis. Consider the fact(s) that 1) the scientific consensus agrees that most human being are almost equivalent in skills and intelligence to form decent social structures 2) Africa has a billion plus human being, the scale at which laws of large number dictates that their overall behavior should be close to human mean. 3) there have been advanced cultures in Africa in past, as recent as just before European colonization. Keeping that in mind, reasonable people would agree that Africans are not inferior merely due to continent they are born upon. Is this the scientific level of proof that matches the 5 sigma precision coming out of LHC? No. But it is reasonable to expect so, and no proper scientific resources are being devoted to this micro-study, after most of Science has already has rejected idea that one large group of humans could be statistically inferior to other large group. As a side note, you might not have realized it, but similar arguments have been used (and are still being used) by people who want to raise a rhetorical question, like how do you know that evolution explains x,y,z fact? More often than not, these people do not have intention of genuine questioning but rather want to show that ignorance of one detailed thought experiment is enough to discredit entire field of scientific evidence. It is thus not surprising that people would think that you belong to one of that group.

chrischen 13y ago
It doesn't matter what's probable or not. I never claimed any specific conclusion about Africans. I only claimed the OP's assertions that it must not be some intrinsic factor to be false. It is literally as simple as that.