4 ms·

So I work at Apple in SV. There are hoards and hoards of cube farms packed to the hilt (sometimes 3-4 people in a 8X10 cube) staffed 99% with heads from Wipro,

So I work at Apple in SV. There are hoards and hoards of cube farms packed to the hilt (sometimes 3-4 people in a 8X10 cube) staffed 99% with heads from Wipro, TCS, Infosys - all Indian with zero diversity. I know pretty competent guys getting 34-40 bucks an hour with the vendor probably billing around 75-80. This is big business. With local 1BR apartments going for 2K+ and rising, how is this not slave labor? Its ridiculous. If the public could only see this. H1's should be allowed into the country as free agents and the talent should be slanted toward top coder types. Lots of these people spend their day reading log files and editing system scripts working the 10-5 schedule with an hour of lunch. We can't find American workers who can do this for say 50 bucks an hour ( split the difference)? In this economy ? Really ?

blinkingled 13y ago
Believe me - the Indian companies are just another corporations wanting to make money. They couldn't care less about whether they are employing an Indian or American or a Mexican. If they could find Americans living in SV willing to work for 50$ an hour weeding through editing scripts with no future aspirations, no complaints and a girlfriend and a dog to feed - they'd do it in a heartbeat. In this economy and political situation - they just can't get enough VISAs - the rejection rate is as low as 50% and as high as 85% for some of the VISAs. Also it isn't slave labor because H1-Bs can leave and get another job of their liking or go back to their home country when they wish. This is simple demand/supply/willingness/market forces in action.
- shiven 13y ago
  Also it isn't slave labor because H1-Bs can leave and get another job of their liking or go back to their home country when they wish. Please tell me you were born in a third-world country and that your parents wages were so low that they could barely afford to feed you and your siblings while you were growing up. And you would not mind going back because you so loved the living conditions before moving to the US that you would love your kids to grow up in a third-world country, with all its disadvantages. You, dear blinkingled, clearly have no clue what you are saying when you say what you said there.
  - blinkingled 13y ago
    What about changing jobs on H1? Is that too hard on you, shiven? Getting up and leaving for work in traffic to the same place everyday - does that bother you too?!
    - shiven 13y ago
      Wanna offer me one? Perhaps you live in a part of the universe blessed with a cornucopia of jobs offers. I do not. Snark aside, did you know losing your "new" job while on an H-1B means getting kicked out of the US within 15 days? Not a very comforting thought now, is it?
      - blinkingled 13y ago
        Inconvenience and slavery are two different things. H1B isn't very convenient to the employees and it could certainly get better but calling it slavery is going too far.
        shiven 13y ago
        Sure, lets not call it slavery. Lets call it what it is: Bonded Labor. Not merely an inconvenience either. Capisce?
    - jacalata 13y ago
      Changing jobs on a H1B is certainly an extra hurdle. I'm on an E3 and am pretty much only willing to consider Amazon/Facebook sized companies that I know will be able to handle visa issues for me. I do know people who've moved to a startup or smaller company but they spent a lot of their own time and money dealing with immigration, which I'm not very interested in. And if you are applying for a greencard while on the H1B then I believe* that changing jobs at the wrong point in the process can reset/invalidate your current application, setting you back years in the process. I can't speak for shiven but I know I hate mornings and traffic too, yea. *I'm not actually doing this myself, I'm basing this off of friends experiences
  - 13y ago
- wakjob 13y ago
  Indian companies will not hire Americans - especially white Americans. Trust me. They are here to take over and pack as many of their people into our jobs as possible. They hate us due to historical reasons. And trust me - NO ONE wants to go back to India because it's such a hellhole.
wakjob 13y ago
I am a top programmer and I am unemployed. And I worked on PlayStation at Sony and used to write software @ Apple. http://maportfolio.zymichost.com/j/index.html http://maportfolio.zymichost.com/j/index.html
curiousDog 13y ago
Those guys aren't brought here on a H-1B visa though, atleast that wasn't the case at msft. They come in on 'L1's i think. L1 allows a company to shuttle employees within their branches. They aren't allowed to work anywhere else though. MSFT outsourced ops/rote testing stuff to an Indian consulting company, Infosys/Wipro, don't remember which. Those companies in-turn have branches here and they bring in these guys from India. They come-in for periods of 3-4 months and go back once the project is done. Although, considering the fact that all these Indian outsourcing companies are morally, ethically corrupt and run by scumbags, I wouldn't be surprised if they were pulling some fraudulent scam. I totally agree with you, I don't think Apple/MS et al have significant cost savings when they pull this shit. They can easily find someone here without making a dent in their pockets. And like you point out, they're actually probably paying more to these guys. My guess is there's some MBA in the finance/HR division pulling this shit..the 'consulting experts' from OfficeSpace come to mind. Being Indian, I know the quality of idiots these outsourcing companies hire. Most of them can't code their way out of a paper bag. And worse, they bring a bad reputation to Indian engineers in general. I got my masters here in the US and there were scores of reasonably component people in my undergrad class I TA'ed who'd be more than happy to fill up QA and data entry jobs at these companies. These Indian outsourcing companies should be banned from bringing people here period.

blinkingled 13y ago

Believe me - the Indian companies are just another corporations wanting to make money. They couldn't care less about whether they are employing an Indian or American or a Mexican. If they could find Americans living in SV willing to work for 50$ an hour weeding through editing scripts with no future aspirations, no complaints and a girlfriend and a dog to feed - they'd do it in a heartbeat. In this economy and political situation - they just can't get enough VISAs - the rejection rate is as low as 50% and as high as 85% for some of the VISAs. Also it isn't slave labor because H1-Bs can leave and get another job of their liking or go back to their home country when they wish. This is simple demand/supply/willingness/market forces in action.

shiven 13y ago
Also it isn't slave labor because H1-Bs can leave and get another job of their liking or go back to their home country when they wish. Please tell me you were born in a third-world country and that your parents wages were so low that they could barely afford to feed you and your siblings while you were growing up. And you would not mind going back because you so loved the living conditions before moving to the US that you would love your kids to grow up in a third-world country, with all its disadvantages. You, dear blinkingled, clearly have no clue what you are saying when you say what you said there.
- blinkingled 13y ago
  What about changing jobs on H1? Is that too hard on you, shiven? Getting up and leaving for work in traffic to the same place everyday - does that bother you too?!
  - shiven 13y ago
    Wanna offer me one? Perhaps you live in a part of the universe blessed with a cornucopia of jobs offers. I do not. Snark aside, did you know losing your "new" job while on an H-1B means getting kicked out of the US within 15 days? Not a very comforting thought now, is it?
    - blinkingled 13y ago
      Inconvenience and slavery are two different things. H1B isn't very convenient to the employees and it could certainly get better but calling it slavery is going too far.
      - shiven 13y ago
        Sure, lets not call it slavery. Lets call it what it is: Bonded Labor. Not merely an inconvenience either. Capisce?
  - jacalata 13y ago
    Changing jobs on a H1B is certainly an extra hurdle. I'm on an E3 and am pretty much only willing to consider Amazon/Facebook sized companies that I know will be able to handle visa issues for me. I do know people who've moved to a startup or smaller company but they spent a lot of their own time and money dealing with immigration, which I'm not very interested in. And if you are applying for a greencard while on the H1B then I believe* that changing jobs at the wrong point in the process can reset/invalidate your current application, setting you back years in the process. I can't speak for shiven but I know I hate mornings and traffic too, yea. *I'm not actually doing this myself, I'm basing this off of friends experiences
- 13y ago
wakjob 13y ago
Indian companies will not hire Americans - especially white Americans. Trust me. They are here to take over and pack as many of their people into our jobs as possible. They hate us due to historical reasons. And trust me - NO ONE wants to go back to India because it's such a hellhole.

wakjob 13y ago

I am a top programmer and I am unemployed. And I worked on PlayStation at Sony and used to write software @ Apple. http://maportfolio.zymichost.com/j/index.html http://maportfolio.zymichost.com/j/index.html

curiousDog 13y ago

Those guys aren't brought here on a H-1B visa though, atleast that wasn't the case at msft. They come in on 'L1's i think. L1 allows a company to shuttle employees within their branches. They aren't allowed to work anywhere else though. MSFT outsourced ops/rote testing stuff to an Indian consulting company, Infosys/Wipro, don't remember which. Those companies in-turn have branches here and they bring in these guys from India. They come-in for periods of 3-4 months and go back once the project is done. Although, considering the fact that all these Indian outsourcing companies are morally, ethically corrupt and run by scumbags, I wouldn't be surprised if they were pulling some fraudulent scam. I totally agree with you, I don't think Apple/MS et al have significant cost savings when they pull this shit. They can easily find someone here without making a dent in their pockets. And like you point out, they're actually probably paying more to these guys. My guess is there's some MBA in the finance/HR division pulling this shit..the 'consulting experts' from OfficeSpace come to mind. Being Indian, I know the quality of idiots these outsourcing companies hire. Most of them can't code their way out of a paper bag. And worse, they bring a bad reputation to Indian engineers in general. I got my masters here in the US and there were scores of reasonably component people in my undergrad class I TA'ed who'd be more than happy to fill up QA and data entry jobs at these companies. These Indian outsourcing companies should be banned from bringing people here period.