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Whenever you hear there's a "shortage" of a particular job, that usually just means wages are higher than the employers would like them to be. You can really t

by wffurr 13y ago

Whenever you hear there's a "shortage" of a particular job, that usually just means wages are higher than the employers would like them to be. You can really think of that relationship either way around. e.g. – there's a huge shortage of butlers because they're just way too expensive. One way to compensate for the suffering caused by economic dislocation is to reduce the hardship of not having a job. More unemployment and welfare aid, with less degrading means testing would help. Better would be a basic income, with income earned from working always a bonus on top.

yummyfajitas 13y ago
A shortage also often refers to an inability for employers to find someone they wish to hire, regardless of what the price is. I.e. I've interviewed a number of people in the past year or so. I only recommended hiring one of them.
- rayiner 13y ago
  I'm sure there are some brilliant people working on Wall Street right now who'd be happy to come work for you at the right price.
- chrisbennet 13y ago
  (Note: These questions are not meant to be snarky so please don't dog pile on the poster if he responds.) Can you tell me what sort of position was this for (developer, scientist, "unicorn"*, etc)? Were the parameters for this candidate search "find us someone regardless of price" or was there some notion of "market rate" attached to it?
snowwrestler 13y ago
> Whenever you hear there's a "shortage" of a particular job, that usually just means wages are higher than the employers would like them to be. You can really think of that relationship either way around. e.g. – there's a huge shortage of butlers because they're just way too expensive. This sentiment comes from the idea that businesses facing a "shortage" can always hire good candidates by just raising their salaries. That is true, but it does not disprove a shortage--it just proves that good employees can be recruited from competitors if the wage is high enough. But if there actually is a shortage, all that does is move the shortage around. There's also the issue of what is a sustainable salary expense in a given industry. Sure Inova could staff up with top-notch nurses if it paid them all $300k per year. But then how much would they have to charge patients to stay in business? In the end, this a fun and easy argument to make because it requires no actual data about a given industry--just a preconception that businesses are cheap and manipulative. (Which they sometimes are--but again, that doesn't mean there's not a shortage.)
- rayiner 13y ago
  Why does Economics 101 go out the window when it comes to labor supply and demand? Rising prices increase supply until supply and demand reach equilibrium. The "sustainable salary expense" is whatever the market decides it is. Remember, prices affect the demand curve too. The specter of businesses not being able to afford labor is wholly fictional. If the market price of programmers is $300k and some businesses cannot afford nurses at $300k, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong. If the market price is $300k, that means there are companies who get much more than that in value out of each programmer, and so all that happens is that programmers get shifted from companies that generate less value to companies that generate more value.
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    >Why does Economics 101 go out the window when it comes to labor supply and demand? Rising prices increase supply until supply and demand reach equilibrium. why does Dynamic Systems 101 goes out of the window when it comes to proponents of supply/demand economics? Positive feedback in a system - like rising prices increase supply - is not necessarily leads the system to equilibrium, in many cases it is a recipe for the system to swing even more widely out of equilibrium. What do they teach these days in colleges?!
  - harryh 13y ago
    Shortage doesn't mean the market doesn't clear. Of course the market will clear. Absent price controls it will always clear. But sometimes the price ends up higher than we think is good for everyone. We think that things would be better for everyone if we could train more people to be effective programmers.
  - snowwrestler 13y ago
    If higher wages drive higher labor supply, why haven't all the laid off factory workers gotten jobs as software developers or nurses[1]? Even the mean salaries in those industries are much higher than unemployment payments. And yet, there are labor shortages in both, and a large number of unemployed factory workers. The answer is that it is very difficult for people to change industries. It would be like if you needed gold for a product you're manufacturing, but only iron was available. No matter how much you're willing to pay for it, iron won't do what gold does. Only mining, or transmutation, can give you what you need. We're mining new developers and nurses by educating youth. The question is, can we transmute factory workers? [1] Just using these industries as examples.

by wffurr 13y ago

yummyfajitas 13y ago

A shortage also often refers to an inability for employers to find someone they wish to hire, regardless of what the price is. I.e. I've interviewed a number of people in the past year or so. I only recommended hiring one of them.

rayiner 13y ago
I'm sure there are some brilliant people working on Wall Street right now who'd be happy to come work for you at the right price.
chrisbennet 13y ago
(Note: These questions are not meant to be snarky so please don't dog pile on the poster if he responds.) Can you tell me what sort of position was this for (developer, scientist, "unicorn"*, etc)? Were the parameters for this candidate search "find us someone regardless of price" or was there some notion of "market rate" attached to it?

snowwrestler 13y ago

> Whenever you hear there's a "shortage" of a particular job, that usually just means wages are higher than the employers would like them to be. You can really think of that relationship either way around. e.g. – there's a huge shortage of butlers because they're just way too expensive. This sentiment comes from the idea that businesses facing a "shortage" can always hire good candidates by just raising their salaries. That is true, but it does not disprove a shortage--it just proves that good employees can be recruited from competitors if the wage is high enough. But if there actually is a shortage, all that does is move the shortage around. There's also the issue of what is a sustainable salary expense in a given industry. Sure Inova could staff up with top-notch nurses if it paid them all $300k per year. But then how much would they have to charge patients to stay in business? In the end, this a fun and easy argument to make because it requires no actual data about a given industry--just a preconception that businesses are cheap and manipulative. (Which they sometimes are--but again, that doesn't mean there's not a shortage.)

rayiner 13y ago
Why does Economics 101 go out the window when it comes to labor supply and demand? Rising prices increase supply until supply and demand reach equilibrium. The "sustainable salary expense" is whatever the market decides it is. Remember, prices affect the demand curve too. The specter of businesses not being able to afford labor is wholly fictional. If the market price of programmers is $300k and some businesses cannot afford nurses at $300k, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong. If the market price is $300k, that means there are companies who get much more than that in value out of each programmer, and so all that happens is that programmers get shifted from companies that generate less value to companies that generate more value.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  >Why does Economics 101 go out the window when it comes to labor supply and demand? Rising prices increase supply until supply and demand reach equilibrium. why does Dynamic Systems 101 goes out of the window when it comes to proponents of supply/demand economics? Positive feedback in a system - like rising prices increase supply - is not necessarily leads the system to equilibrium, in many cases it is a recipe for the system to swing even more widely out of equilibrium. What do they teach these days in colleges?!
- harryh 13y ago
  Shortage doesn't mean the market doesn't clear. Of course the market will clear. Absent price controls it will always clear. But sometimes the price ends up higher than we think is good for everyone. We think that things would be better for everyone if we could train more people to be effective programmers.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  If higher wages drive higher labor supply, why haven't all the laid off factory workers gotten jobs as software developers or nurses[1]? Even the mean salaries in those industries are much higher than unemployment payments. And yet, there are labor shortages in both, and a large number of unemployed factory workers. The answer is that it is very difficult for people to change industries. It would be like if you needed gold for a product you're manufacturing, but only iron was available. No matter how much you're willing to pay for it, iron won't do what gold does. Only mining, or transmutation, can give you what you need. We're mining new developers and nurses by educating youth. The question is, can we transmute factory workers? [1] Just using these industries as examples.