4 ms·

> Wait, what? Why does it matter whether I sign up or not. It may not matter to you, but it certainly matters to them. If you sign up, you become a customer.

by lutusp 13y ago

> Wait, what? Why does it matter whether I sign up or not. It may not matter to you, but it certainly matters to them. If you sign up, you become a customer. > If I don't understand what the service/app is for, why would I want to sign up? Try to think like the site operator. They know they don't have anything interesting to offer you, but you certainly have something interesting to offer them: your identity. > If just signing up makes it legal for the company to email me, how does that still make me want to use your app? Who cares? The point is to get you to sign up, reveal your personal information, not to offer you anything useful for your trouble. > Just because I am forced to sign up does not mean I will be a paying customer or an active user. You clearly don't understand how the Can-Spam Act works. The Can-Spam Act doesn't apply to people who are customers, i.e. people who have signed up. So by signing up, you've given permission to be spammed perpetually.

ryandrake 13y ago
Respectfully, I think your view is overly cynical, and applies to a very small number of services out there that truly provide no value and exist solely for the purpose of harvesting E-mail addresses and SPAMming. For most operators with a genuine product, the push to get you to register is neither 100% for your benefit nor 100% for theirs.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > For most operators with a genuine product ... Those sites can prove their sincerity by telling you what they offer before asking for a signup. But that's not the topic under discussion.
misterparker 13y ago
> Try to think like the site operator. They know they don't have anything interesting to offer you ... Remind me never to sign up for anything you create. It seems you have a hard time getting your head around the fact that many "site operators" try to solve real problems by building services to do so. And I might venture to say they believe their site is even more than just "something interesting to offer" - but something valuable or useful to make your life/work easier or more efficient.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Remind me never to sign up for anything you create. My site is completely free, no ads, no promotions, and no signups (http://arachnoid.com/ http://arachnoid.com/). And believe me when I tell you, many people find my site useful. People regularly send me unsolicited checks, which I tear up. You were saying? > It seems you have a hard time getting your head around the fact that many "site operators" try to solve real problems by building services to do so. The topic under discussion is sites that require you to sign up before showing you what they have to offer. For those sites, my doubts are fully justified. > ... but something valuable or useful to make your life/work easier or more efficient. If they believed that, they would show you what they have to offer before encouraging a signup. But that's not the topic of this thread.
  - woah 13y ago
    Your site is a blog
    - lutusp 13y ago
      Because I don't have anything for sale or require a signup? That's circular reasoning. If someone creates a site that isn't commercial, doesn't advertise anything, and doesn't require a signup, it's inevitably dismissed as a mere comment forum, regardless of its content. It's not defined by what it is, it's defined by what it isn't. Bloggers don't offer popular -- not to say famous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnophilia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnophilia) -- programs for download. My site does. Bloggers don't offer online applications with wide acceptance (http://arachnoid.com/latex http://arachnoid.com/latex). My site does. My site, online since 1996, had its present form before the term "blog" had its present meaning. All that has changed is it has more content people find useful.
      - briandear 13y ago
        The design certainly looks like it started in 1996. I visited the site and still have no idea how it's any different than a Tumblr blog.. Other than decreased organization and usability of course. Also we're talking about the topic of gradual engagement. Your site has pretty much no engagement other than hundreds of blog posts and a sidebar full of unorganized links. The OP was discussing businesses-- meaning the sales of a product or service. Your site doesn't qualify as such, or if it does, the value proposition is so horribly obscured as to make it undetectable. I'm not knocking your site, but it's hardly a relevant example in this discussion. If it is selling a product or a service, then it's a great case study on what not to do in terms of selling your product.

by lutusp 13y ago

ryandrake 13y ago

Respectfully, I think your view is overly cynical, and applies to a very small number of services out there that truly provide no value and exist solely for the purpose of harvesting E-mail addresses and SPAMming. For most operators with a genuine product, the push to get you to register is neither 100% for your benefit nor 100% for theirs.

lutusp 13y ago
> For most operators with a genuine product ... Those sites can prove their sincerity by telling you what they offer before asking for a signup. But that's not the topic under discussion.

misterparker 13y ago

> Try to think like the site operator. They know they don't have anything interesting to offer you ... Remind me never to sign up for anything you create. It seems you have a hard time getting your head around the fact that many "site operators" try to solve real problems by building services to do so. And I might venture to say they believe their site is even more than just "something interesting to offer" - but something valuable or useful to make your life/work easier or more efficient.

lutusp 13y ago
> Remind me never to sign up for anything you create. My site is completely free, no ads, no promotions, and no signups (http://arachnoid.com/ http://arachnoid.com/). And believe me when I tell you, many people find my site useful. People regularly send me unsolicited checks, which I tear up. You were saying? > It seems you have a hard time getting your head around the fact that many "site operators" try to solve real problems by building services to do so. The topic under discussion is sites that require you to sign up before showing you what they have to offer. For those sites, my doubts are fully justified. > ... but something valuable or useful to make your life/work easier or more efficient. If they believed that, they would show you what they have to offer before encouraging a signup. But that's not the topic of this thread.
- woah 13y ago
  Your site is a blog
  - lutusp 13y ago
    Because I don't have anything for sale or require a signup? That's circular reasoning. If someone creates a site that isn't commercial, doesn't advertise anything, and doesn't require a signup, it's inevitably dismissed as a mere comment forum, regardless of its content. It's not defined by what it is, it's defined by what it isn't. Bloggers don't offer popular -- not to say famous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnophilia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnophilia) -- programs for download. My site does. Bloggers don't offer online applications with wide acceptance (http://arachnoid.com/latex http://arachnoid.com/latex). My site does. My site, online since 1996, had its present form before the term "blog" had its present meaning. All that has changed is it has more content people find useful.
    - briandear 13y ago
      The design certainly looks like it started in 1996. I visited the site and still have no idea how it's any different than a Tumblr blog.. Other than decreased organization and usability of course. Also we're talking about the topic of gradual engagement. Your site has pretty much no engagement other than hundreds of blog posts and a sidebar full of unorganized links. The OP was discussing businesses-- meaning the sales of a product or service. Your site doesn't qualify as such, or if it does, the value proposition is so horribly obscured as to make it undetectable. I'm not knocking your site, but it's hardly a relevant example in this discussion. If it is selling a product or a service, then it's a great case study on what not to do in terms of selling your product.