3 ms·

Poor guy. For what it's worth I agree with the tweets that got him fired, including this one[1] and the ones immediately around it. The "controversial" apps fro

Poor guy. For what it's worth I agree with the tweets that got him fired, including this one[1] and the ones immediately around it. The "controversial" apps from the techcrunch disrupt hackathon weren't really "misogynist", so much as in bad taste. And I'm tired of seeing accusations of "hate" used to shut down discussion. But it seems that tweeting that kicked off a PC feminist lynch mob that went back through his tweets combing for a way to get him fired. Most of the tweets that offended them are logically defensible, if against mainstream opinion. The one that is beyond the pale is a quote from Mel Gibson. I'm not sure why he posted that. Anybody that has a reason to dislike you isn't going to give you the benefit of the doubt. You gotta be on your toes. Even in this thread on HN people are debating whether or not he should be fired, and then that tweet gets posted and people say "oh, I see". This goes to show that the only way to have counter-cultural opinions on the internet is with a pseudonym. Or to never make mistakes. You hackers arguing about "women in tech", founder accents, or other sensitive topics under your real names are insane. [1] https://twitter.com/paxdickinson/status/377139293136756736 https://twitter.com/paxdickinson/status/377139293136756736

jackowayed 13y ago
I would call supporting the objectification of women misogyny. Sure, it's not traditional "hatred" (But really, how many people hate all women in the traditional sense? Is that all people think misogyny means?), but it's a failure to value women as people. Regardless, it's more than just bad taste. At a professional event for a group that has terrible gender balance, glorifying the objectification onstage only further creates a culture where it is hard for women to feel welcome. It's bad taste that is Part of the Problem. And even a sexualized environment (eg. the stupid CircleShake presentation) can make a lot of people feel uncomfortable, especially women since society views male and female sexuality very differently. Plus women are overwhelmingly the ones who have had very bad experiences with sex (sexual assault, etc), or have worried about it even if it hasn't happened. So both presentations contributed to the status quo that makes tech/startups feel like a boys club, making it harder for women to feel comfortable joining the communities. I think that supporting these unjust, sexist status quos is misogyny, so both presentations were--in effect, if not in intention--misogynistic. But it also doesn't matter. He's the CTO. If he were a random dev, firing him would probably be extreme. Talk to him, ask him to avoid touching controversial subjects online for awhile and be more careful and considerate. But this is the guy who leads the technical team. He has a lot of impact on the culture. If he thinks the right response to stupid guys who support the objectification of women onstage at a large, publicly-broadcast professional event is to defend them as "not misogynists," then I don't trust him to be very sensitive to how his work environment may need improvement to make women feel more comfortable. And I doubt many prospective female engineers would either.
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Let's be honest, the decision to fire Pax isn't about hiring female engineers so much as appeasing the lynch mob. I disagree with your definitions of misogyny, objectification, and all that. But you seem like a reasonable person and I'm sure we could have a good discussion over it. However, if at the end of the discussion I get fired for holding my side of the conversation, count me out.
  - juridatenshi 13y ago
    You keep using the term "lynch mob." I do not think that means what you think it means.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> The one that is beyond the pale is a quote from Mel Gibson. Actually, its a mockery of a Mel Gibson by projecting a quote from Mel Gibson about (IIRC) his ex-wife into a notional sequel to Mel Gibson's film The Passion of the Christ, with Jesus being put into the position of the subject of the original quote. As such, its probably the one least subject to challenge as being indicative of misogyny, since it is mocking the conflict between Gibson's statement and his public shows of piety.

jackowayed 13y ago

I would call supporting the objectification of women misogyny. Sure, it's not traditional "hatred" (But really, how many people hate all women in the traditional sense? Is that all people think misogyny means?), but it's a failure to value women as people. Regardless, it's more than just bad taste. At a professional event for a group that has terrible gender balance, glorifying the objectification onstage only further creates a culture where it is hard for women to feel welcome. It's bad taste that is Part of the Problem. And even a sexualized environment (eg. the stupid CircleShake presentation) can make a lot of people feel uncomfortable, especially women since society views male and female sexuality very differently. Plus women are overwhelmingly the ones who have had very bad experiences with sex (sexual assault, etc), or have worried about it even if it hasn't happened. So both presentations contributed to the status quo that makes tech/startups feel like a boys club, making it harder for women to feel comfortable joining the communities. I think that supporting these unjust, sexist status quos is misogyny, so both presentations were--in effect, if not in intention--misogynistic. But it also doesn't matter. He's the CTO. If he were a random dev, firing him would probably be extreme. Talk to him, ask him to avoid touching controversial subjects online for awhile and be more careful and considerate. But this is the guy who leads the technical team. He has a lot of impact on the culture. If he thinks the right response to stupid guys who support the objectification of women onstage at a large, publicly-broadcast professional event is to defend them as "not misogynists," then I don't trust him to be very sensitive to how his work environment may need improvement to make women feel more comfortable. And I doubt many prospective female engineers would either.

newnewnew 13y ago
Let's be honest, the decision to fire Pax isn't about hiring female engineers so much as appeasing the lynch mob. I disagree with your definitions of misogyny, objectification, and all that. But you seem like a reasonable person and I'm sure we could have a good discussion over it. However, if at the end of the discussion I get fired for holding my side of the conversation, count me out.
- juridatenshi 13y ago
  You keep using the term "lynch mob." I do not think that means what you think it means.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> The one that is beyond the pale is a quote from Mel Gibson. Actually, its a mockery of a Mel Gibson by projecting a quote from Mel Gibson about (IIRC) his ex-wife into a notional sequel to Mel Gibson's film The Passion of the Christ, with Jesus being put into the position of the subject of the original quote. As such, its probably the one least subject to challenge as being indicative of misogyny, since it is mocking the conflict between Gibson's statement and his public shows of piety.