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Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is? This is clearly identifiable, consistent behavior. He may be tech

by mrcwinn 13y ago

Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is? This is clearly identifiable, consistent behavior. He may be technically correct in his response (or he may not be - I really don't know), but there's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions. Questions shed light. In fact, I now know 0.05% more about the Linux question even by this question, even if it did not have merit in the end. So to answer Linus' question directly: "Where do I start a petition to raise the IQ and kernel knowledge of people?" You actually don't need a petition. Just respond. And of course how you respond to other human beings is up to you. Development is complicated. We should all keep learning from one another and encourage communications.

simias 13y ago
In general, I would agree. When he attacks ad-nominem people on the mailing list, I think he's being a douche. In this instance he's just confronted to a bunch of people signing a petition, most of whom probably don't understand anything about the crypto involved and jump into a bandwagon after all the PRISM controversies. Petitions on change.org are not a good way to dictate the linux kernel roadmap. That's not democracy, that's demagogy.
jeswin 13y ago
I guess what Linus is implying is that the petition was added without understanding much about how it works. If you are complaining, make sure you understand the details so that you don't waste anybody's time. There are also other forums to raise this question, instead of a petition. I want Linus to continue being Linus because it works. There may be other ways to run Linux development, but it is too important a project to leave that to chance.
makomk 13y ago
There's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions in this case - on some older kernel versions, and I believe some current distro kernels, /dev/urandom does return the result of RdRand directly.
- harshreality 13y ago
  Which older versions and which distro's current kernels? This is easily verifiable. Name them, or don't make such claims.
tspiteri 13y ago
Why is he being an a-hole? There are times to be civil, and times to be blunt. The original petition disparagingly calls Linux "a NSA approved partner", and boldly claims that removing a feature from the kernel would improve security when it wouldn't. The answer Linus gives is, in this case, quite fitting.
gpvos 13y ago
The petition is really very stupid, and anyone with basic knowledge of cryptography will know that. Linus is rightly annoyed, and is fully within his rights to attempt to discourage this stupid behaviour by reacting abrasively.
kevinmchugh 13y ago
It's pretty common knowledge that Linus is abrasive and abrupt and frequently rude. It's typically speculated that he does it to manage his workload. This is a case where a response from him shouldn't have been necessary. Just read the code. That's one of the benefits of OSS after all, right?
mbesto 13y ago
The original petition is an utter waste of time.[0] It provides no insight to the problem, no analysis, no debug, no "if this, then that". It's petitions like this that are "clearly identifiable, consistent behavior" of people who shouldn't be petitioning FREE, OPEN-SOURCE, SOFTWARE. Put an issue in github if this is such a big deal...no one asked this petitioner to use Linux, nor paid for it. Development is complicated. We should all keep learning from one another and encourage communications Yes, but calling out the BDFL of one of the most influential pieces of technology is straight up utter poor communication. Linus should have ignored this. Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is? You know what you do with people who are assholes? Ignore them. I find it quite funny that people criticize Linus for his attitude. Personally, I don't condone it and would be my prime reason for not working with him. But you know what? I don't have the capability or know how to contribute to the Linux kernel, so who am I to judge an organization's "style of communication" for providing something that has created massive value to my everyday work? [0] http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-remove-rdrand-from-dev-random-4 http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-remove-...
Dewie 13y ago
> but there's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions. Starting a petition is very different from asking a question. The former is much more aggressive than the latter, and so an aggressive answer is understandable.
lotsofcows 13y ago
Linus deals with a lot of shit in a professional manner. He uses some words that some people don't like. Personally, I find his language enlighteningly clear. If you can ask a sensible question, it will be answered sensibly. If you ask a question having made little effort to find the answer without directly hassling people, you will be answered brusquely.
sanskritabelt 13y ago
"Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is?" Don't worry about it, he'll solve that problem all by himself.

by mrcwinn 13y ago

simias 13y ago

In general, I would agree. When he attacks ad-nominem people on the mailing list, I think he's being a douche. In this instance he's just confronted to a bunch of people signing a petition, most of whom probably don't understand anything about the crypto involved and jump into a bandwagon after all the PRISM controversies. Petitions on change.org are not a good way to dictate the linux kernel roadmap. That's not democracy, that's demagogy.

jeswin 13y ago

I guess what Linus is implying is that the petition was added without understanding much about how it works. If you are complaining, make sure you understand the details so that you don't waste anybody's time. There are also other forums to raise this question, instead of a petition. I want Linus to continue being Linus because it works. There may be other ways to run Linux development, but it is too important a project to leave that to chance.

makomk 13y ago

There's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions in this case - on some older kernel versions, and I believe some current distro kernels, /dev/urandom does return the result of RdRand directly.

harshreality 13y ago
Which older versions and which distro's current kernels? This is easily verifiable. Name them, or don't make such claims.

tspiteri 13y ago

Why is he being an a-hole? There are times to be civil, and times to be blunt. The original petition disparagingly calls Linux "a NSA approved partner", and boldly claims that removing a feature from the kernel would improve security when it wouldn't. The answer Linus gives is, in this case, quite fitting.

gpvos 13y ago

The petition is really very stupid, and anyone with basic knowledge of cryptography will know that. Linus is rightly annoyed, and is fully within his rights to attempt to discourage this stupid behaviour by reacting abrasively.

kevinmchugh 13y ago

It's pretty common knowledge that Linus is abrasive and abrupt and frequently rude. It's typically speculated that he does it to manage his workload. This is a case where a response from him shouldn't have been necessary. Just read the code. That's one of the benefits of OSS after all, right?

mbesto 13y ago

The original petition is an utter waste of time.[0] It provides no insight to the problem, no analysis, no debug, no "if this, then that". It's petitions like this that are "clearly identifiable, consistent behavior" of people who shouldn't be petitioning FREE, OPEN-SOURCE, SOFTWARE. Put an issue in github if this is such a big deal...no one asked this petitioner to use Linux, nor paid for it. Development is complicated. We should all keep learning from one another and encourage communications Yes, but calling out the BDFL of one of the most influential pieces of technology is straight up utter poor communication. Linus should have ignored this. Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is? You know what you do with people who are assholes? Ignore them. I find it quite funny that people criticize Linus for his attitude. Personally, I don't condone it and would be my prime reason for not working with him. But you know what? I don't have the capability or know how to contribute to the Linux kernel, so who am I to judge an organization's "style of communication" for providing something that has created massive value to my everyday work? [0] http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-remove-rdrand-from-dev-random-4 http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-remove-...

Dewie 13y ago

> but there's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions. Starting a petition is very different from asking a question. The former is much more aggressive than the latter, and so an aggressive answer is understandable.

lotsofcows 13y ago

Linus deals with a lot of shit in a professional manner. He uses some words that some people don't like. Personally, I find his language enlighteningly clear. If you can ask a sensible question, it will be answered sensibly. If you ask a question having made little effort to find the answer without directly hassling people, you will be answered brusquely.

sanskritabelt 13y ago

"Where do I start a petition to make people aware of what a complete a-hole Linus Torvalds is?" Don't worry about it, he'll solve that problem all by himself.