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To each his own. I find web development(dynamic or just html/css) doesn't have the instant gratification something like VB has(it doesn't have to be VB). The ma

by irahul 13y ago

To each his own. I find web development(dynamic or just html/css) doesn't have the instant gratification something like VB has(it doesn't have to be VB). The main purpose of teaching programming to high-schoolers is to con them into learning it themselves. VB, despite its warts, was one of the most popular programming languages of its time. Excel and VB owe its popularity to the simple fact that they aren't hostile(or at least not as hostile as others) to newcomers.

xauronx 13y ago
As someone who learned programming in VB, I agree with you. As a junior high kid I was able to make things from business calculators to arcade style games. Was my code great? NO. Was it hip and trendy? Back then... maybe, but no. Am I now a successful programmer "who knows better" with a degree/full time job/start up? Yes. I'm not sure VB was a "make or break" factor in my education, but it certainly didn't help. Also, I'm trying to teach my girlfriend development and web development, it turns out, IS NOT a good place to start.
- Tloewald 13y ago
  I learned to program in school using BASIC on an Apple II, and it was great, but that doesn't mean I think this is the way to teach programming today. As recently as, say, 2000 desktop applications written in VB were kind of cool and relevant. Today: not so much. In 2000 the original writer's daughter would probably have bugged her for a Windows laptop and not a Macbook Pro. > I'm trying to teach my girlfriend development and web development, it turns out, IS NOT a good place to start. I totally agree, which is why I would teach Javascript, not web development.
  - xauronx 13y ago
    And then what happens when they go "Ok, so... can I actually make anything with this? How would I use this in the real world?" Which is exactly what happened to me a week ago. Then you're on the hook for "Well, first you'll have to learn HTML, then you'll have to learn how to access the HTML from javascript... then you'll have to learn CSS to actually make it not look embarassing." I SUPPOSE I could make my novice girlfriend write a backend server in node with her new found looping and if/else if skills. I think once she gets the basics down I'm going to have to switch her over to objective-c, which is going to be a bitch but at least she can do something and see results. I love javascript, but it's not a fun and immediately rewarding experience like you get with a design->compile->run process.
Tloewald 13y ago
I agree that VB's build-run-debug cycle is highly gratifying, but so is JavaScript's if properly taught, and it has the advantage of -- as I said -- being the underpinning of something they actually use. If you want to show the joy of a VB-like build-run-debug cycle, use Unity and C# (or Unityscript) and it's (a) free, (b) runs on Macs, and (again) (c) builds stuff they might actually care about.

by irahul 13y ago

xauronx 13y ago

As someone who learned programming in VB, I agree with you. As a junior high kid I was able to make things from business calculators to arcade style games. Was my code great? NO. Was it hip and trendy? Back then... maybe, but no. Am I now a successful programmer "who knows better" with a degree/full time job/start up? Yes. I'm not sure VB was a "make or break" factor in my education, but it certainly didn't help. Also, I'm trying to teach my girlfriend development and web development, it turns out, IS NOT a good place to start.

Tloewald 13y ago
I learned to program in school using BASIC on an Apple II, and it was great, but that doesn't mean I think this is the way to teach programming today. As recently as, say, 2000 desktop applications written in VB were kind of cool and relevant. Today: not so much. In 2000 the original writer's daughter would probably have bugged her for a Windows laptop and not a Macbook Pro. > I'm trying to teach my girlfriend development and web development, it turns out, IS NOT a good place to start. I totally agree, which is why I would teach Javascript, not web development.
- xauronx 13y ago
  And then what happens when they go "Ok, so... can I actually make anything with this? How would I use this in the real world?" Which is exactly what happened to me a week ago. Then you're on the hook for "Well, first you'll have to learn HTML, then you'll have to learn how to access the HTML from javascript... then you'll have to learn CSS to actually make it not look embarassing." I SUPPOSE I could make my novice girlfriend write a backend server in node with her new found looping and if/else if skills. I think once she gets the basics down I'm going to have to switch her over to objective-c, which is going to be a bitch but at least she can do something and see results. I love javascript, but it's not a fun and immediately rewarding experience like you get with a design->compile->run process.

Tloewald 13y ago

I agree that VB's build-run-debug cycle is highly gratifying, but so is JavaScript's if properly taught, and it has the advantage of -- as I said -- being the underpinning of something they actually use. If you want to show the joy of a VB-like build-run-debug cycle, use Unity and C# (or Unityscript) and it's (a) free, (b) runs on Macs, and (again) (c) builds stuff they might actually care about.