4 ms·

Well same is true for any class right? haha. the question is, why would we want someone no experience with programming to teach programming class to our kids?

by yeukhon 13y ago

sliverstorm 13y ago
Because it's that, or nothing? It's not like high schools are rolling in money. Even if they could afford to hire an extra teacher just to teach programming, what programmer would want to teach for $20k when he can make (at least according to HN) $120k in the industry?
- briandear 13y ago
  $20k? There is no full-time public school teacher making that. In Jersey City, teachers averaged in 2012 $67,412 with a contractually-limited 183 work days per year, that includes inservice/training days and excludes up to 8 personal days and additional sick days; with each day lasting a maximum of about 7 hours, including about a 40 minute lunch period. If a programmer gets 3 paid weeks of vacation per year, they work approximately 219 days per year. At an average salary of say $100,000 that's about $456 per work day. And often that includes no pension/retirement benefits. A teacher makes about $368 per day, however a teacher in New Jersey with 20 years service gets about 36% of the average of their three highest salary years as retirement income -- for life. I'm not crying over teacher pay. That they don't get paid enough is propaganda from the teachers unions. Yes I realize that teachers work after hours grading papers, etc. However programmers often work late into the night as well without extra money too. Programmers often spend their own money (along with teachers) on extra software, tools and other things to help them do their job better without necessarily getting a reimbursement. I'd rather be crying over administrators that continually make unenlughtened decisions about curriculum, methodology and creativity.
  - hdctambien 13y ago
    My starting pay as a high school teacher was $30k. I lived in a one room apartment, didn't have cable, had a cheap used car and a $30 a month "dumb" cell phone. I didn't go to the bars or buy new fancy gadgets. And I still had 6 months before I had to start repaying my student loan. Including grading papers and planning lessons I was putting in 10 hours a day. Add I had a second job at the mall movie theater to make up the difference between by income and my bills, so I worked 8+ hours on Saturday and Sunday as well. You know what I did on my school vacations and personal days? I worked extra hours at the movie theater (the extra money almost always went to fixing my broken used car) I make more money now than I would have made teaching with 20 years experience and a PhD (which I would have had to pay for myself) and my job now is far less difficult that the easiest day of teaching. And I can pay my bills without working on the weekends.
  - cschneid 13y ago
    > with each day lasting a maximum of about 7 hours, including about a 40 minute lunch period. HAHAHA My girlfriend is a second year high school teacher. You are technically right that she is required to be on campus for the required 7 or 8 hours. But, there is nowhere near enough time to grade, plan, prepare, work individually with kids (makeup work mostly), etc, in that time. She puts in 12+ hour days. Everyday. Including weekends. And over the summer, you are right that it is mostly free, except for several weeks you give up to do professional development, AP course training, and any schoolwork to move up the salary schedule a bit. Her salary schedules are here [1]. With a masters degree, she would top out at $58k/year after 20 years on the job (assuming the masters track). Starting salaries are in the $35k range. Meanwhile, I am a computer programmer, working a legit 8 hour a day job, making much more than she is now. What annoys me more than just teacher pay though is the other spending in the school. She was pulled in to teach english this year. When the english department met to work out the plan, they had to blow their whole budget for the year on a single class-set of a paperback. (30ish copies). That's it. No more books, no miscellaneous DVDs / Documentaries purchased. That's it. Well, except for when she just goes and pays for it. Which she did last year to the tune of $350ish. [1] http://thompsonschools.org/cms/lib07/CO01900772/Centricity/Domain/53/documents/2011-12%20Licensed%20Salary%20Schedule%20B.pdf http://thompsonschools.org/cms/lib07/CO01900772/Centricity/D...

Well same is true for any class right? haha. the question is, why would we want someone no experience with programming to teach programming class to our kids?

by yeukhon 13y ago

Well same is true for any class right? haha. the question is, why would we want someone no experience with programming to teach programming class to our kids?

sliverstorm 13y ago

Because it's that, or nothing? It's not like high schools are rolling in money. Even if they could afford to hire an extra teacher just to teach programming, what programmer would want to teach for $20k when he can make (at least according to HN) $120k in the industry?

briandear 13y ago
$20k? There is no full-time public school teacher making that. In Jersey City, teachers averaged in 2012 $67,412 with a contractually-limited 183 work days per year, that includes inservice/training days and excludes up to 8 personal days and additional sick days; with each day lasting a maximum of about 7 hours, including about a 40 minute lunch period. If a programmer gets 3 paid weeks of vacation per year, they work approximately 219 days per year. At an average salary of say $100,000 that's about $456 per work day. And often that includes no pension/retirement benefits. A teacher makes about $368 per day, however a teacher in New Jersey with 20 years service gets about 36% of the average of their three highest salary years as retirement income -- for life. I'm not crying over teacher pay. That they don't get paid enough is propaganda from the teachers unions. Yes I realize that teachers work after hours grading papers, etc. However programmers often work late into the night as well without extra money too. Programmers often spend their own money (along with teachers) on extra software, tools and other things to help them do their job better without necessarily getting a reimbursement. I'd rather be crying over administrators that continually make unenlughtened decisions about curriculum, methodology and creativity.
- hdctambien 13y ago
  My starting pay as a high school teacher was $30k. I lived in a one room apartment, didn't have cable, had a cheap used car and a $30 a month "dumb" cell phone. I didn't go to the bars or buy new fancy gadgets. And I still had 6 months before I had to start repaying my student loan. Including grading papers and planning lessons I was putting in 10 hours a day. Add I had a second job at the mall movie theater to make up the difference between by income and my bills, so I worked 8+ hours on Saturday and Sunday as well. You know what I did on my school vacations and personal days? I worked extra hours at the movie theater (the extra money almost always went to fixing my broken used car) I make more money now than I would have made teaching with 20 years experience and a PhD (which I would have had to pay for myself) and my job now is far less difficult that the easiest day of teaching. And I can pay my bills without working on the weekends.
- cschneid 13y ago
  > with each day lasting a maximum of about 7 hours, including about a 40 minute lunch period. HAHAHA My girlfriend is a second year high school teacher. You are technically right that she is required to be on campus for the required 7 or 8 hours. But, there is nowhere near enough time to grade, plan, prepare, work individually with kids (makeup work mostly), etc, in that time. She puts in 12+ hour days. Everyday. Including weekends. And over the summer, you are right that it is mostly free, except for several weeks you give up to do professional development, AP course training, and any schoolwork to move up the salary schedule a bit. Her salary schedules are here [1]. With a masters degree, she would top out at $58k/year after 20 years on the job (assuming the masters track). Starting salaries are in the $35k range. Meanwhile, I am a computer programmer, working a legit 8 hour a day job, making much more than she is now. What annoys me more than just teacher pay though is the other spending in the school. She was pulled in to teach english this year. When the english department met to work out the plan, they had to blow their whole budget for the year on a single class-set of a paperback. (30ish copies). That's it. No more books, no miscellaneous DVDs / Documentaries purchased. That's it. Well, except for when she just goes and pays for it. Which she did last year to the tune of $350ish. [1] http://thompsonschools.org/cms/lib07/CO01900772/Centricity/Domain/53/documents/2011-12%20Licensed%20Salary%20Schedule%20B.pdf http://thompsonschools.org/cms/lib07/CO01900772/Centricity/D...