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I think the key point is having a zero harassment policy. It should not matter if the victim/subject of the harassment appears to be tolerating it (or even enjo

I think the key point is having a zero harassment policy. It should not matter if the victim/subject of the harassment appears to be tolerating it (or even enjoying the attention). Chances are he/she is just being a good sport and is socially intimidated. The worst thing about harassment culture (even when it's largely good-natured) is that it creates and reinforces a power dynamic and subtle "law of the jungle" status hierarchy where the most inappropriate, brazen harasser becomes the dominant figure. In my opinion, this is particularly dangerous in the way that it obstructs critical thought and group problem solving. Not necessarily relevant to high school but highly important if a team of coworkers evolve toward such a culture.

deleted 13y ago
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- peter-fogg 13y ago
  Yes, none of the teams you've worked on have needed any explicit bans on behavior that's considered unacceptable in society. That's because you've worked on teams with adult humans (maybe assuming here), who don't need to be told the rules. High school kids still need some reminders that there is a normal way of interacting with others, like not suggesting that the only girl in the class be relegated to the kitchen. A bit of extra regulation is absolutely called for among teenagers. That being said, your general point is good -- absolutist policies like zero-tolerance rarely work well, simply because human behavior is complicated and difficult for the policy maker to predict in advance.
  - consultutah 13y ago
    I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. How many poor kids lifes' have been ruined by pointing their finger and saying, "Pew, pew" by idiot school administrators that are too stupid to think objectively? That said, this teaches does need to be reprimanded at very least for laziness and not paying attention to what was going on in his class and possibly for creating the environment where it was allowed as well.
chernevik 13y ago
Nah. Nothing about this course was done well. No competent teacher needs a policy to notice or stop crap like this. Here you have some time-serving cypher filling a slot to help the administration check a box. With everything else done so thoughtlessly, why would we expect them to perk up and get intraclass dynamics right? Even if you exerted enough political pressure to suppress _this_ stuff, it would still be a bad and poorly taught class. Fix the quality of the teaching and you fix a lot more besides.
- codemonkeymike 13y ago
  You probably didn't go to public school(/end ad hominem). The teacher are so dense that you need rules like that so the parents have something to point to when their kids come home and tell them they are being harassed.
  - chernevik 13y ago
    One, if the teacher is that dense, then the key problem isn't the rules, is it? Two, yeah, I went to public school. I've seen all sorts of well meaning "policy announcements" that hack solutions to glaring embarrassments without doing anything about the underlying problems.

deleted 13y ago

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peter-fogg 13y ago
Yes, none of the teams you've worked on have needed any explicit bans on behavior that's considered unacceptable in society. That's because you've worked on teams with adult humans (maybe assuming here), who don't need to be told the rules. High school kids still need some reminders that there is a normal way of interacting with others, like not suggesting that the only girl in the class be relegated to the kitchen. A bit of extra regulation is absolutely called for among teenagers. That being said, your general point is good -- absolutist policies like zero-tolerance rarely work well, simply because human behavior is complicated and difficult for the policy maker to predict in advance.
- consultutah 13y ago
  I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. How many poor kids lifes' have been ruined by pointing their finger and saying, "Pew, pew" by idiot school administrators that are too stupid to think objectively? That said, this teaches does need to be reprimanded at very least for laziness and not paying attention to what was going on in his class and possibly for creating the environment where it was allowed as well.

chernevik 13y ago

Nah. Nothing about this course was done well. No competent teacher needs a policy to notice or stop crap like this. Here you have some time-serving cypher filling a slot to help the administration check a box. With everything else done so thoughtlessly, why would we expect them to perk up and get intraclass dynamics right? Even if you exerted enough political pressure to suppress _this_ stuff, it would still be a bad and poorly taught class. Fix the quality of the teaching and you fix a lot more besides.

codemonkeymike 13y ago
You probably didn't go to public school(/end ad hominem). The teacher are so dense that you need rules like that so the parents have something to point to when their kids come home and tell them they are being harassed.
- chernevik 13y ago
  One, if the teacher is that dense, then the key problem isn't the rules, is it? Two, yeah, I went to public school. I've seen all sorts of well meaning "policy announcements" that hack solutions to glaring embarrassments without doing anything about the underlying problems.