4 ms·

Just because you don't have a JIT doesn't mean it's "completely useless on the modern internet." On the contrary, I rarely (ever?) have run into this as an actu

Just because you don't have a JIT doesn't mean it's "completely useless on the modern internet." On the contrary, I rarely (ever?) have run into this as an actual bottleneck.

jgraham 13y ago
There are two separate issues: 1) You can't ship your own browser engine 2) If you use the built in engine, you don't get JIT on (but Mobile Safari does)
JohnTHaller 13y ago
You're confusing two different things here: 1. Not being able to use JIT is just the anti-competitive part that Apple does to people who ship UIs/skins over Mobile Safari. 2. The more insidious bit is that you can't run interpreted code in your own app AT ALL, which prevents Google, Mozilla, Opera, etc from being able to ship their own full browser engine because it wouldn't be able to implement JavaScript AT ALL, making it completely useless on the modern internet. So, you're left with Chrome on iOS which is just a fancy skin/UI over Mobile Safari (sans JIT so it's forced to be slower so Safari looks better by comparison). Compare that to Chrome for Android which is the full Blink-based browser stack tweaked to be as fast and smooth as possible. Or Firefox on Android which is the full Gecko engine with a custom Android native UI running over the top. You can't have the Gecko or Blink engines at all on iOS because Apple says so.
- woah 13y ago
  How is this any different from what MS was doing in the 90's?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    The same MS that tried (and failed) to disrupt and dislodge Netscape's JavaScript?
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    And your point is? It was wrong, anti-competitive, and anti-consumer then. It's the same now. It's just being done by a different company that doesn't have a monopoly (thanks to Android).
  - RandallBrown 13y ago
    Apple isn't preventing the use of JIT in a UIWebView to make safari look better, they're doing it because if the JIT has to break the sandbox and that screws up their whole app model. I'm sure it can be done, but that's the biggest reason it hasn't been done.
- peterhunt 13y ago
  Yep, don't disagree with any of that stuff, just the fact that no JIT is a dealbreaker. It's not.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    Which is odd, since I never claimed it was a dealbreaker. I just said that's why all the browsers on iOS are slower than Safari. It artificially keeps Safari's performance high relative to competing browsers (well, Safari skins). The only thing that's a dealbreaker for me is that Apple prevents all other real browsers from shipping for iOS. One browser only is a dealbreaker for me on any OS.
    - peterhunt 13y ago
      Ah, appears I misread your original comment -- you were talking about third party browser implementors. My bad.

Just because you don't have a JIT doesn't mean it's "completely useless on the modern internet." On the contrary, I rarely (ever?) have run into this as an actual bottleneck.

jgraham 13y ago

There are two separate issues: 1) You can't ship your own browser engine 2) If you use the built in engine, you don't get JIT on (but Mobile Safari does)

JohnTHaller 13y ago

You're confusing two different things here: 1. Not being able to use JIT is just the anti-competitive part that Apple does to people who ship UIs/skins over Mobile Safari. 2. The more insidious bit is that you can't run interpreted code in your own app AT ALL, which prevents Google, Mozilla, Opera, etc from being able to ship their own full browser engine because it wouldn't be able to implement JavaScript AT ALL, making it completely useless on the modern internet. So, you're left with Chrome on iOS which is just a fancy skin/UI over Mobile Safari (sans JIT so it's forced to be slower so Safari looks better by comparison). Compare that to Chrome for Android which is the full Blink-based browser stack tweaked to be as fast and smooth as possible. Or Firefox on Android which is the full Gecko engine with a custom Android native UI running over the top. You can't have the Gecko or Blink engines at all on iOS because Apple says so.

woah 13y ago
How is this any different from what MS was doing in the 90's?
- mpyne 13y ago
  The same MS that tried (and failed) to disrupt and dislodge Netscape's JavaScript?
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  And your point is? It was wrong, anti-competitive, and anti-consumer then. It's the same now. It's just being done by a different company that doesn't have a monopoly (thanks to Android).
- RandallBrown 13y ago
  Apple isn't preventing the use of JIT in a UIWebView to make safari look better, they're doing it because if the JIT has to break the sandbox and that screws up their whole app model. I'm sure it can be done, but that's the biggest reason it hasn't been done.
peterhunt 13y ago
Yep, don't disagree with any of that stuff, just the fact that no JIT is a dealbreaker. It's not.
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  Which is odd, since I never claimed it was a dealbreaker. I just said that's why all the browsers on iOS are slower than Safari. It artificially keeps Safari's performance high relative to competing browsers (well, Safari skins). The only thing that's a dealbreaker for me is that Apple prevents all other real browsers from shipping for iOS. One browser only is a dealbreaker for me on any OS.
  - peterhunt 13y ago
    Ah, appears I misread your original comment -- you were talking about third party browser implementors. My bad.