6 ms·

It sounds like you've gone all-in with the US government, and now you can't criticise it without risking everything. It is possible to internationalize yoursel

It sounds like you've gone all-in with the US government, and now you can't criticise it without risking everything. It is possible to internationalize yourself and your assets in such a way that no one government can threaten you with taking everything away. I suggest taking a look at these internationalization resources: http://www.internationalman.com/ http://www.internationalman.com/ http://www.sovereignman.com/ http://www.sovereignman.com/ http://nomadcapitalist.com/ http://nomadcapitalist.com/ Once you internationalize yourself, your fear of government will be substantially reduced and you can be free to take a stand.

dobbsbob 13y ago
Unless you're living off bitcoins there is no such thing as protected offshore savings. They bribe low level workers to leak supposedly secret info and you wind up in jail. Remember the leaked bvi docs? Swiss and Liechtenstein dvds full of depositor info? Almost every country bends over to sign tax treaties with the US. Swiss numbered accounts are meaningless since the war on terrorderp. They (gov thugs) also specialize in blackmail, your finances aren't their only target
- mahyarm 13y ago
  I don't think you'll be hiding assets, but putting it in another country so you don't get caught by surprise that something like Argentina's capital controls that happened nearly overnight.
- yafujifide 13y ago
  I am living off bitcoins.
  - samstave 13y ago
    How?
    - yafujifide 13y ago
      Mostly by converting them to dollars when I need.
      - acabal 13y ago
        So... you're actually living off dollars.
        aero142 13y ago
        You're not making an attempt to understand the conversation, just being pedantic. He said he was keeping his money in bitcoins to make it so that his money was harder to seize. Yes, he is spending dollars, but the savings is in bitcoins.
        radiusq 13y ago
        How is bitcoins harder to seize than dollars? Aren't the fed and several state govt's seizing several exchanges now? http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4332698/dwolla-payments-mtgox-halted-by-homeland-security-seizure-warrant http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4332698/dwolla-payments-mt... You'd think dollars->cash would be the best to "live off of"
        acabal 13y ago
        It's not being pedantic, it's crucial to the problem of Bitcoin. If I'm trying to live outside of government meddling, and yet I'm spending in dollars, then I may as well keep my savings in monopoly money. Why? Because converting to dollars (outside of a guy handing you cash in a shady park) requires a bank account, which in turn requires government involvement--and that's exactly the problem the OP is trying to avoid. You think keeping Bitcoins prevents the government from seizing your assets? Well if you trade in dollars, then they don't HAVE to seize your Bitcoin assets. They can just stop you from converting to dollars, and effectively achieve the same result. All the Bitcoins in the world are worthless if you trade in dollars and can't convert Bitcoins to dollars. And if you think MtGox is going to stand up for you when the government comes knocking on their door and demands they stop honoring withdraw requests for your account, then you're wrong. Bitcoins are cool, they're useful today, and they have potential. But until you can buy a sack of flour from the corner store with Bitcoins, they're not an effective way of evading government meddling. They're just a proxy currency for people who don't understand better.
mahyarm 13y ago
How do you deal with this without a %1-%3 international transaction 'tax' in the form of currency exchange or bank wiring / card processing transfer fees being levied every time you want to transfer money between borders? For example, I can't find anything like Schwab's %0 currency exchange fee debit card in Canada, and I don't have $100k to just have sitting around in a bank account to get HSBC Premier with it's %0 international fees. You also get the significantly more complicated tax returns and accountant fees you will occur? Have you done this yourself? I'm currently living in the USA too.
acabal 13y ago
I'm not sure it's as easy to do as you suggest. Moving large amounts of money internationally is difficult to do depending on the receiving country, and impossible to do without having it tracked. If you fly, you have to declare cash amounts > $10,000 and that puts you at the caprice of customs officials. One could create shell corporations and try arranging some kind of complex loophole-based scheme, but that's not only difficult, but also traceable in most cases. There's a reason druglords deal in warehouses full of cash--because if the government wants you bad enough, there's no scheme you can arrange to escape, and even moreso with the NSA watching and storing all of your past and future online activity.
georgemcbay 13y ago
Is this really a viable option short of "internationalizing" yourself to a country like Russia, China or Iran? I've seen very little evidence that any of the countries you would normally want to be an American ex-pat in won't bend over for the US government when push comes to shove (especially when it comes to protecting someone who is an American to begin with and not a native citizen), and plenty of evidence that they will.

dobbsbob 13y ago

Unless you're living off bitcoins there is no such thing as protected offshore savings. They bribe low level workers to leak supposedly secret info and you wind up in jail. Remember the leaked bvi docs? Swiss and Liechtenstein dvds full of depositor info? Almost every country bends over to sign tax treaties with the US. Swiss numbered accounts are meaningless since the war on terrorderp. They (gov thugs) also specialize in blackmail, your finances aren't their only target

mahyarm 13y ago
I don't think you'll be hiding assets, but putting it in another country so you don't get caught by surprise that something like Argentina's capital controls that happened nearly overnight.
yafujifide 13y ago
I am living off bitcoins.
- samstave 13y ago
  How?
  - yafujifide 13y ago
    Mostly by converting them to dollars when I need.
    - acabal 13y ago
      So... you're actually living off dollars.
      - aero142 13y ago
        You're not making an attempt to understand the conversation, just being pedantic. He said he was keeping his money in bitcoins to make it so that his money was harder to seize. Yes, he is spending dollars, but the savings is in bitcoins.
        radiusq 13y ago
        How is bitcoins harder to seize than dollars? Aren't the fed and several state govt's seizing several exchanges now? http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4332698/dwolla-payments-mtgox-halted-by-homeland-security-seizure-warrant http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4332698/dwolla-payments-mt... You'd think dollars->cash would be the best to "live off of"
        acabal 13y ago
        It's not being pedantic, it's crucial to the problem of Bitcoin. If I'm trying to live outside of government meddling, and yet I'm spending in dollars, then I may as well keep my savings in monopoly money. Why? Because converting to dollars (outside of a guy handing you cash in a shady park) requires a bank account, which in turn requires government involvement--and that's exactly the problem the OP is trying to avoid. You think keeping Bitcoins prevents the government from seizing your assets? Well if you trade in dollars, then they don't HAVE to seize your Bitcoin assets. They can just stop you from converting to dollars, and effectively achieve the same result. All the Bitcoins in the world are worthless if you trade in dollars and can't convert Bitcoins to dollars. And if you think MtGox is going to stand up for you when the government comes knocking on their door and demands they stop honoring withdraw requests for your account, then you're wrong. Bitcoins are cool, they're useful today, and they have potential. But until you can buy a sack of flour from the corner store with Bitcoins, they're not an effective way of evading government meddling. They're just a proxy currency for people who don't understand better.

mahyarm 13y ago

How do you deal with this without a %1-%3 international transaction 'tax' in the form of currency exchange or bank wiring / card processing transfer fees being levied every time you want to transfer money between borders? For example, I can't find anything like Schwab's %0 currency exchange fee debit card in Canada, and I don't have $100k to just have sitting around in a bank account to get HSBC Premier with it's %0 international fees. You also get the significantly more complicated tax returns and accountant fees you will occur? Have you done this yourself? I'm currently living in the USA too.

acabal 13y ago

I'm not sure it's as easy to do as you suggest. Moving large amounts of money internationally is difficult to do depending on the receiving country, and impossible to do without having it tracked. If you fly, you have to declare cash amounts > $10,000 and that puts you at the caprice of customs officials. One could create shell corporations and try arranging some kind of complex loophole-based scheme, but that's not only difficult, but also traceable in most cases. There's a reason druglords deal in warehouses full of cash--because if the government wants you bad enough, there's no scheme you can arrange to escape, and even moreso with the NSA watching and storing all of your past and future online activity.

georgemcbay 13y ago

Is this really a viable option short of "internationalizing" yourself to a country like Russia, China or Iran? I've seen very little evidence that any of the countries you would normally want to be an American ex-pat in won't bend over for the US government when push comes to shove (especially when it comes to protecting someone who is an American to begin with and not a native citizen), and plenty of evidence that they will.