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I maintain my stance that your original statement was phrased poorly. It's a semantic argument at this point. We're both using the term "exists", but our perso

by ZoF 13y ago

I maintain my stance that your original statement was phrased poorly. It's a semantic argument at this point. We're both using the term "exists", but our personal meanings are different. I personally believe that stating something "exists" in the context of religion/mythological-creatures/magic/otherfakethings usually means that you believe it exists physically. Obviously I don't deny god exists in the sense that he/she/it is a delusion held by a large portion of the population which effects the world around us; but I do deny that god "exists" in the physical sense... I don't adhere to your train of logic... as I stated before, for your belief system to be consistent with itself elves/dragons/magic/fairies/etc.. "exist"; Of course the concept of them exists and the world is altered as a result, but your original statement seemed to imply a more literal meaning to the term "exists".

Swizec 13y ago
I concede that my original statement was written in haste and thus not phrased the best. But here's the thing: As soon as you start talking about existence of things, it's nothing but a semantic argument. I will finish with a youtube clip from a Prattchet-based movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIfCGf_suxs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIfCGf_suxs The gist is that a lot of things exist solely because we believe in them.
- waps 13y ago
  Of course most things do not "exist" if you demand physical material existence as semantics. soul -> doesn't exist. law -> doesn't exist. countries -> don't exist justice, peace, war, good, evil -> don't exist computer programs -> don't exist hacker news -> doesn't exist and one might even say You don't exist. You're merely a set of partially filled ion channels in a bag of liquid some existing system likes to simulate for some reason. Just like minds seem to like to simulate God (which is independant of whether God has a physical manifestation or not). Your mind only exists in the same way God exists, no more, no less. God is simply found in more than a single bag of liquid. (I've studied AI, so I would argue the same -partially- applies to your mind, in that people with memories of you effectively simulate your mind to e.g. know if you'd agree or disagree with a proposal of theirs) And frankly, if I were free to choose, I wouldn't have a physical manifestation at all, if I didn't need it to affect the real world. In fact, I am a computer programmer, one way of describing that job would be that I spend my days making other physical systems do what I'd have to do myself otherwise. I'd love to cut out the middleman that is my body. It's fragile, it's distracting, it fails from time to time, it hurts sometimes, it communicates through talking and typing and that makes it fucking slow to communicate with, it's ... Why would you want that if you can avoid it ?

by ZoF 13y ago

Swizec 13y ago

I concede that my original statement was written in haste and thus not phrased the best. But here's the thing: As soon as you start talking about existence of things, it's nothing but a semantic argument. I will finish with a youtube clip from a Prattchet-based movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIfCGf_suxs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIfCGf_suxs The gist is that a lot of things exist solely because we believe in them.

waps 13y ago
Of course most things do not "exist" if you demand physical material existence as semantics. soul -> doesn't exist. law -> doesn't exist. countries -> don't exist justice, peace, war, good, evil -> don't exist computer programs -> don't exist hacker news -> doesn't exist and one might even say You don't exist. You're merely a set of partially filled ion channels in a bag of liquid some existing system likes to simulate for some reason. Just like minds seem to like to simulate God (which is independant of whether God has a physical manifestation or not). Your mind only exists in the same way God exists, no more, no less. God is simply found in more than a single bag of liquid. (I've studied AI, so I would argue the same -partially- applies to your mind, in that people with memories of you effectively simulate your mind to e.g. know if you'd agree or disagree with a proposal of theirs) And frankly, if I were free to choose, I wouldn't have a physical manifestation at all, if I didn't need it to affect the real world. In fact, I am a computer programmer, one way of describing that job would be that I spend my days making other physical systems do what I'd have to do myself otherwise. I'd love to cut out the middleman that is my body. It's fragile, it's distracting, it fails from time to time, it hurts sometimes, it communicates through talking and typing and that makes it fucking slow to communicate with, it's ... Why would you want that if you can avoid it ?