4 ms·

I'm tired of seeing everything linked to sexism in tech. Moreover, sexism isn't a female only problem: try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartn or a nurser

I'm tired of seeing everything linked to sexism in tech. Moreover, sexism isn't a female only problem: try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartn or a nursery school.

chris_wot 13y ago
Not everything is. Sexist things in tech get linked to sexism.
- WayneDB 13y ago
  There was no "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex" here though. Obviously not everyone agrees what is sexist.
ericb 13y ago
> try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartner or a nursery school. Problems in other industries are no justification for ignoring our own--is this an argument you are seriously making? Really?
- cliveowen 13y ago
  I do not justify sexism in the tech industry, I'm trying to resize and put into perspective the phenomenon. If you add up all the jobs that are the preserve of women (mostly retail, where face-to-face communication is needed) you can actually see that sexism in the tech industry, in the grand scheme of things, is a pretty small matter. If you think I'm being hyperbolic just take a look at job ads for common jobs like barista, sales rep., PR, call centers operator, etc.
- illumen 13y ago
  Agreed. There are definitely sexism problems in education. Especially kinder, pre-school, and primary school levels. This also has flow on effects to the IT sector. 80% women teachers is a common amount in countries like UK/Australia. Not sure of the stats in other countries. The IT sector is doing better in addressing the problems compared to Education sector. The IT sector has made some good progress in the last few years. Some companies are going from 0%-20% to 40% women. There are outreach programs at many conferences and in many open source groups. If you look at the conference websites for teachers you don't see the same efforts. Lots left to do though. I think the IT industry can take pride in it has accomplished in comparison to education in recent years. IT is doing well compared to the journalism industry too (male dominated). Still lots left to do, and just because some industries are doing badly it doesn't mean we can't do better. But we also shouldn't ignore the good progress we have made.
Steko 13y ago
Poor men when will we ever catch a break in this world.
sambeau 13y ago
Feminism is about the equality of opportunity and power. You cannot create a picture of equal sexism by demonstrating a low-power, low-economic status, low opportunity-of-career-advancement role (that has traditionally been a female-only occupation due in-part to traditional gender-specific roles around child-rearing) where men who choose to enter it are viewed with scepticism. Especially if that role includes close, private contact with young children. Feminists like me want an equal share of the good jobs for women throughout all strata of all industries. Men will undoubtably have to take up some of the low-paid shit jobs to compensate—but that is equality. Sexism is a female only problem and will continue to be as long as men hold most of the power and are afforded most of the best opportunities.
- qwerty500 13y ago
  "Sexism is a female only problem and will continue to be as long as men hold most of the power and are afforded most of the best opportunities." Can you name one company who wouldn't take a more competent female developer over a male developer?
  - sambeau 13y ago
    I have worked for many. How many female developers does your company have? Mine has 0/6. My previous company, that actively sought female developers had around 15%, the company before that had 3 out of 100+, before that one out of 30. Women make up 51% of the population and, at least in the UK, are getting better school results in science & maths than men. And yet what percentage of the developer population is female? 10%? more? less? So it looks like either the companies are not taking the more competent developers or the women are less competent. Are you therefore claiming that female developers are less competent than male developers?
- cliveowen 13y ago
  Do you realize that preventing someone from getting a job because "has traditionally been a female-only occupation due in-part to traditional gender-specific roles around child-rearing" and that "men who choose to enter it are viewed with scepticism" is the very definition of sexism? Sexism isn't about the industry or about career advancement is about discrimination against a gender for a given category of jobs.
JulianMorrison 13y ago
The cure is more feminism. Why did you think that "nurturing" jobs are given disproportionately to women?

I'm tired of seeing everything linked to sexism in tech. Moreover, sexism isn't a female only problem: try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartn or a nursery school.

chris_wot 13y ago

Not everything is. Sexist things in tech get linked to sexism.

WayneDB 13y ago
There was no "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex" here though. Obviously not everyone agrees what is sexist.

ericb 13y ago

> try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartner or a nursery school. Problems in other industries are no justification for ignoring our own--is this an argument you are seriously making? Really?

cliveowen 13y ago
I do not justify sexism in the tech industry, I'm trying to resize and put into perspective the phenomenon. If you add up all the jobs that are the preserve of women (mostly retail, where face-to-face communication is needed) you can actually see that sexism in the tech industry, in the grand scheme of things, is a pretty small matter. If you think I'm being hyperbolic just take a look at job ads for common jobs like barista, sales rep., PR, call centers operator, etc.
illumen 13y ago
Agreed. There are definitely sexism problems in education. Especially kinder, pre-school, and primary school levels. This also has flow on effects to the IT sector. 80% women teachers is a common amount in countries like UK/Australia. Not sure of the stats in other countries. The IT sector is doing better in addressing the problems compared to Education sector. The IT sector has made some good progress in the last few years. Some companies are going from 0%-20% to 40% women. There are outreach programs at many conferences and in many open source groups. If you look at the conference websites for teachers you don't see the same efforts. Lots left to do though. I think the IT industry can take pride in it has accomplished in comparison to education in recent years. IT is doing well compared to the journalism industry too (male dominated). Still lots left to do, and just because some industries are doing badly it doesn't mean we can't do better. But we also shouldn't ignore the good progress we have made.

Steko 13y ago

Poor men when will we ever catch a break in this world.

sambeau 13y ago

Feminism is about the equality of opportunity and power. You cannot create a picture of equal sexism by demonstrating a low-power, low-economic status, low opportunity-of-career-advancement role (that has traditionally been a female-only occupation due in-part to traditional gender-specific roles around child-rearing) where men who choose to enter it are viewed with scepticism. Especially if that role includes close, private contact with young children. Feminists like me want an equal share of the good jobs for women throughout all strata of all industries. Men will undoubtably have to take up some of the low-paid shit jobs to compensate—but that is equality. Sexism is a female only problem and will continue to be as long as men hold most of the power and are afforded most of the best opportunities.

qwerty500 13y ago
"Sexism is a female only problem and will continue to be as long as men hold most of the power and are afforded most of the best opportunities." Can you name one company who wouldn't take a more competent female developer over a male developer?
- sambeau 13y ago
  I have worked for many. How many female developers does your company have? Mine has 0/6. My previous company, that actively sought female developers had around 15%, the company before that had 3 out of 100+, before that one out of 30. Women make up 51% of the population and, at least in the UK, are getting better school results in science & maths than men. And yet what percentage of the developer population is female? 10%? more? less? So it looks like either the companies are not taking the more competent developers or the women are less competent. Are you therefore claiming that female developers are less competent than male developers?
cliveowen 13y ago
Do you realize that preventing someone from getting a job because "has traditionally been a female-only occupation due in-part to traditional gender-specific roles around child-rearing" and that "men who choose to enter it are viewed with scepticism" is the very definition of sexism? Sexism isn't about the industry or about career advancement is about discrimination against a gender for a given category of jobs.

JulianMorrison 13y ago

The cure is more feminism. Why did you think that "nurturing" jobs are given disproportionately to women?