3 ms·

I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because th

I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because their licensing structure has become so complex, overpriced and antiquated that a new generation of customers will refuse to deal with them. In the past there was piracy as a way to lower the barriers to entry. Today, piracy has become dangerous for small companies in developed countries. All of a sudden SMEs and ISVs are confronted with scores of product feature matrices, weird dependencies and restrictions, kafkaesque partnership programs and long-term committments. Sometimes they are just plain stupid. For instance, I recently came across this page that explains developer account types: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/jj863494.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/jj863494.aspx It seems harmless if convoluted at first sight. But look at the dependencies they have created. In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country. That's effectively a wholesale import of tax, social security and incorporation laws of countless countries into Microsoft's own terms of service. Microsoft operates in many countries so they have to know how onerous this rule can be. They are erecting a huge barrier to entry for individual software developers and early stage startups around the world. I'm sure they will claim it's for their users' safety. But this must be the most uncreative, idiotic safety measure ever invented, particularly if you know how easy it is for real criminals to game this system. Now, I'm not saying that developer relations is Microsoft's most serious problem. Not at all. But it goes to show how incapable this company is of putting themselves into the shoes of those who have to deal with them in any capacity.

bad_user 13y ago
> In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country There are valid reasons for doing that. In Europe for example one reason would be VAT handling. It may very well be that they were forced in doing this. But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship. Depending on the country of course, this is painless to do, accounting is simpler and taxes are much better (in comparison with starting a LLC and paying yourself a salary). It has downsides of course, but for developers trying to experiment it is perfect.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  >There are valid reasons for doing that There always are, but it's a question of priorities. VAT handling is optional for small businesses in most European countries and it has nothing to do with device capabilities or types of software. Tell me a reason that is valid for desktop software but not for other types of store apps, a reason that is valid for some device capabilities but not others! They are creating unnecessary dependencies between unrelated things (distribution/deployment, types of software, permissions/capabilities, taxes/social security). That's what incidental complexity is all about. >But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship [...] for developers trying to experiment it is perfect Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss. In the UK that's just 20 Euros or so, but in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month. If you're self funded that hurts.
  - bad_user 13y ago
    > Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss ... in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month That's true, unfortunately, although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? In Romania, you get taxed with a percentage of the revenue for healthcare, the tax for unemployment benefits is optional and the only tax that would be required is the pension fund contribution which would amount to 32 EUR per month or something like that.
    - fauigerzigerk 13y ago
      >although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. It is indeed, but often times there are various ways to get that. You could be insured with a spouse or by opting into a voluntary scheme for low earners or students. Having to register as a sole trader makes that impossible in some countries. >A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? Yes, for instance, in Spain it's 250 Euros per month just to be registered as autónomo. It's similar in many other countries. Good to know it's different in Romania!
xradionut 13y ago
"I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because their licensing structure has become so complex, overpriced and antiquated that a new generation of customers will refuse to deal with them." They have cranked prices up, killed TechNet and other stupid things to try push the medium sized clients to Azure. Licenses cost are killing some of our smaller clients to the point they are asking us to find alternatives to Microsoft even if it is a SaaS that isn't Azure. When clients start talking about OSS alternatives instead of Microsoft, you can be damn sure Redmond has "jumped the shark" in their eyes. And even with BizSpark, you are fucked if you are an independent developer.
nhebb 13y ago
Also, this item from the Company Account bullet list: > Requires additional verification through Symantec Symantec owns Verisign, and what this means is that you need a Versign authenticode certificate for code signing. Verisign code-signing certs (not to be confused with SSL certs) run ~$500 / yr, and Microsoft does not accept programs signed with less expensive Comodo certs into the Windows Store. Seems like they're doing their damnedest to drive small indie developers away from their desktop platform.
ams6110 13y ago
Microsoft should open-source Windows and sell enterprise support, creating a CentOS/RHEL sort of analogue. They no longer have any competitive advantage in the basic OS and desktop/window management functions. This would simplify licensing issues at the desktop, and will help keep small/startup companies on the platform without them having to resort to piracy. They can still sell enterprise add-ons to facilitate management (e.g. centralized identity management, pushing security policy, software and updates to hundreds of desktops), and this would free their other products (SQL Server, Active Directory, Exchange, Office, etc.) to compete on more than just the Windows platform.

bad_user 13y ago

> In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country There are valid reasons for doing that. In Europe for example one reason would be VAT handling. It may very well be that they were forced in doing this. But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship. Depending on the country of course, this is painless to do, accounting is simpler and taxes are much better (in comparison with starting a LLC and paying yourself a salary). It has downsides of course, but for developers trying to experiment it is perfect.

fauigerzigerk 13y ago
>There are valid reasons for doing that There always are, but it's a question of priorities. VAT handling is optional for small businesses in most European countries and it has nothing to do with device capabilities or types of software. Tell me a reason that is valid for desktop software but not for other types of store apps, a reason that is valid for some device capabilities but not others! They are creating unnecessary dependencies between unrelated things (distribution/deployment, types of software, permissions/capabilities, taxes/social security). That's what incidental complexity is all about. >But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship [...] for developers trying to experiment it is perfect Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss. In the UK that's just 20 Euros or so, but in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month. If you're self funded that hurts.
- bad_user 13y ago
  > Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss ... in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month That's true, unfortunately, although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? In Romania, you get taxed with a percentage of the revenue for healthcare, the tax for unemployment benefits is optional and the only tax that would be required is the pension fund contribution which would amount to 32 EUR per month or something like that.
  - fauigerzigerk 13y ago
    >although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. It is indeed, but often times there are various ways to get that. You could be insured with a spouse or by opting into a voluntary scheme for low earners or students. Having to register as a sole trader makes that impossible in some countries. >A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? Yes, for instance, in Spain it's 250 Euros per month just to be registered as autónomo. It's similar in many other countries. Good to know it's different in Romania!

xradionut 13y ago

"I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because their licensing structure has become so complex, overpriced and antiquated that a new generation of customers will refuse to deal with them." They have cranked prices up, killed TechNet and other stupid things to try push the medium sized clients to Azure. Licenses cost are killing some of our smaller clients to the point they are asking us to find alternatives to Microsoft even if it is a SaaS that isn't Azure. When clients start talking about OSS alternatives instead of Microsoft, you can be damn sure Redmond has "jumped the shark" in their eyes. And even with BizSpark, you are fucked if you are an independent developer.

nhebb 13y ago

Also, this item from the Company Account bullet list: > Requires additional verification through Symantec Symantec owns Verisign, and what this means is that you need a Versign authenticode certificate for code signing. Verisign code-signing certs (not to be confused with SSL certs) run ~$500 / yr, and Microsoft does not accept programs signed with less expensive Comodo certs into the Windows Store. Seems like they're doing their damnedest to drive small indie developers away from their desktop platform.

ams6110 13y ago

Microsoft should open-source Windows and sell enterprise support, creating a CentOS/RHEL sort of analogue. They no longer have any competitive advantage in the basic OS and desktop/window management functions. This would simplify licensing issues at the desktop, and will help keep small/startup companies on the platform without them having to resort to piracy. They can still sell enterprise add-ons to facilitate management (e.g. centralized identity management, pushing security policy, software and updates to hundreds of desktops), and this would free their other products (SQL Server, Active Directory, Exchange, Office, etc.) to compete on more than just the Windows platform.