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I agree and finding great developers is a big part of the challenge. However, there's more to arranging a project then finding the right talent, especially for

I agree and finding great developers is a big part of the challenge. However, there's more to arranging a project then finding the right talent, especially for clients who have expectations for security, domain expertise, and quality assurance. Most platforms simply solve the matchmaking component (eharmony style). The solution is a platform which supports engineers' workflows (git, hg, etc) -- or at least this continues to be our philosophy and mission as we grow Hackerlist.net. mjhea0, how do you typically structure projects after you've found someone who is a good fit? Do you use any additional services like invoicing, github/bitbucket, bug tracking, etc?

elbear 13y ago
I've just tried to sign up for your service and it restricts certain characters from the password. Why is that?
- mekarpeles 13y ago
  elbear, no, there's no specific reason. We're using an arbitrary regex, 4-32 chars, alphanumerics and a set of specials including: !@#$%^&+=_ Let me know which characters you feel are appropriate and we'll happily consider implementing your recommendation. If you have any additional feedback, feel free to reach out to me personally, m<at>hackerlist.net, tel: 415.690.8033. Ultimately, we're building hackerlist for hackers, so we take your feedback very seriously. best wishes + happy hacking
  - TheCoelacanth 13y ago
    I think that unless you have a specific reason for restricting them, you simply shouldn't restrict them, since any restrictions on the character set makes all passwords weaker. Personally, I expect all printable ASCII characters to be acceptable as part of a password and get irritated when some of them aren't accepted.
    - mekarpeles 13y ago
      Understood, thank you. We're in the process of modifying this now.
mjhea0 13y ago
once i get someone on the phone, i can tell if they know what they are talking about, i can also assess their social skills - which is extremely important to me. depending on how big the project is, i typically use trello to project management and i've built my own invoicing system. i usually use git labs for private repos. but again, my main concern is whether they can get the project done. for me that comes down to communication. i've noticed that in other cultures, if they don't accomplish anything, they'd rather not tell me. it's taken time, but i've been able to really pound it home that it is vital that i know exactly what is going on in case i need to jump in.
- mekarpeles 13y ago
  That's a really important skill to have -- the ability to assess social skills as well as technical prowess. I find trello pretty effective for daily goals. In terms of a mature bug tracking system, I'm a fan of phabricator. For invoicing, we use envois (https://github.com/lambdal/envois https://github.com/lambdal/envois). Agreed, communication and expectation alignment are critical components of avoiding "never-ending contract syndrome"
mjhea0 13y ago
so you are creating an elite set of hackers at hackerlist? how are you finding and assessing them? how do you ensure that they will stay? i hope to see a cross between a dev shop and a job board in the future.
- mekarpeles 13y ago
  Thank you for your questions mjhea0. Long term, as you guessed, we're building something different from a job board -- we're architecting an ecosystem where talented engineers can make a living completing missions online, with version control, test cases, and continuous integration. We imagine this looking like a hybrid between github and odesk but it's ultimately the hackers we work with that will shape this experience. One of our objectives is to bring the certainty and assurance that top companies enjoy with full time staff, to the talented, nomadic hackers of the world, while preserving hackers' needs for flexibility, getting paid what they deserve, and supporting best practices (unless you're a fan of submitting that .zip file on odesk -- nothing hurts me more). To answer your question about retaining talent: One of the reasons I seek ephemeral opportunities (and I suspect there are others like me) is I appreciate flexibility; working on various projects which interest or challenge me, with different teams, on a schedule which works for me. I don't anticipate 'solving' the problem of attrition directly as much as I do finding creative, safe ways of working around hackers' preferences to achieve the most beneficial outcome for all parties involved. This includes experimenting with strategies like structuring missions around teams of hackers to mitigate risk. That said, there are several things we're doing for our hackers to be deserving of their loyalty. First and foremost, we don't charge our hackers any fees -- all of our fees are client facing. Why? I complete missions on behalf of Hackerlist, I don't want fees and I don't think it's right to hold more talented technologists to a different standard. Second, we're giving equity in Hackerlist to the top 4 performing hackers in our first batch. Finally, we have a team of mentors available for advice and guidance. In terms of finding and vetting experts: We have a board of mentors with specialties in different areas who are assisting in the screening process. I also bring my own expertise, being a 2-time founder, having a partial PhD in AI/NLP and having led technology (and a good deal of technical recruiting) efforts for two YC companies (Hyperink, Ark). It's worth nothing, we're only accepting 2^4 applicants for our first official batch (so far there's 700+ applications) specifically so we can address and tackle these quality issues head-on and provide our hackers the best experience possible. TL;DR - no fees to hackers, they keep all their earnings - high price points - we handle invoicing + vetting (clients & hackers) - we have a strong network of mentors to control quality - we're good to our hackers and aim to build a custom experience around their needs. best wishes + happy hacking

elbear 13y ago

I've just tried to sign up for your service and it restricts certain characters from the password. Why is that?

mekarpeles 13y ago
elbear, no, there's no specific reason. We're using an arbitrary regex, 4-32 chars, alphanumerics and a set of specials including: !@#$%^&+=_ Let me know which characters you feel are appropriate and we'll happily consider implementing your recommendation. If you have any additional feedback, feel free to reach out to me personally, m<at>hackerlist.net, tel: 415.690.8033. Ultimately, we're building hackerlist for hackers, so we take your feedback very seriously. best wishes + happy hacking
- TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  I think that unless you have a specific reason for restricting them, you simply shouldn't restrict them, since any restrictions on the character set makes all passwords weaker. Personally, I expect all printable ASCII characters to be acceptable as part of a password and get irritated when some of them aren't accepted.
  - mekarpeles 13y ago
    Understood, thank you. We're in the process of modifying this now.

mjhea0 13y ago

once i get someone on the phone, i can tell if they know what they are talking about, i can also assess their social skills - which is extremely important to me. depending on how big the project is, i typically use trello to project management and i've built my own invoicing system. i usually use git labs for private repos. but again, my main concern is whether they can get the project done. for me that comes down to communication. i've noticed that in other cultures, if they don't accomplish anything, they'd rather not tell me. it's taken time, but i've been able to really pound it home that it is vital that i know exactly what is going on in case i need to jump in.

mekarpeles 13y ago
That's a really important skill to have -- the ability to assess social skills as well as technical prowess. I find trello pretty effective for daily goals. In terms of a mature bug tracking system, I'm a fan of phabricator. For invoicing, we use envois (https://github.com/lambdal/envois https://github.com/lambdal/envois). Agreed, communication and expectation alignment are critical components of avoiding "never-ending contract syndrome"

mjhea0 13y ago

so you are creating an elite set of hackers at hackerlist? how are you finding and assessing them? how do you ensure that they will stay? i hope to see a cross between a dev shop and a job board in the future.

mekarpeles 13y ago
Thank you for your questions mjhea0. Long term, as you guessed, we're building something different from a job board -- we're architecting an ecosystem where talented engineers can make a living completing missions online, with version control, test cases, and continuous integration. We imagine this looking like a hybrid between github and odesk but it's ultimately the hackers we work with that will shape this experience. One of our objectives is to bring the certainty and assurance that top companies enjoy with full time staff, to the talented, nomadic hackers of the world, while preserving hackers' needs for flexibility, getting paid what they deserve, and supporting best practices (unless you're a fan of submitting that .zip file on odesk -- nothing hurts me more). To answer your question about retaining talent: One of the reasons I seek ephemeral opportunities (and I suspect there are others like me) is I appreciate flexibility; working on various projects which interest or challenge me, with different teams, on a schedule which works for me. I don't anticipate 'solving' the problem of attrition directly as much as I do finding creative, safe ways of working around hackers' preferences to achieve the most beneficial outcome for all parties involved. This includes experimenting with strategies like structuring missions around teams of hackers to mitigate risk. That said, there are several things we're doing for our hackers to be deserving of their loyalty. First and foremost, we don't charge our hackers any fees -- all of our fees are client facing. Why? I complete missions on behalf of Hackerlist, I don't want fees and I don't think it's right to hold more talented technologists to a different standard. Second, we're giving equity in Hackerlist to the top 4 performing hackers in our first batch. Finally, we have a team of mentors available for advice and guidance. In terms of finding and vetting experts: We have a board of mentors with specialties in different areas who are assisting in the screening process. I also bring my own expertise, being a 2-time founder, having a partial PhD in AI/NLP and having led technology (and a good deal of technical recruiting) efforts for two YC companies (Hyperink, Ark). It's worth nothing, we're only accepting 2^4 applicants for our first official batch (so far there's 700+ applications) specifically so we can address and tackle these quality issues head-on and provide our hackers the best experience possible. TL;DR - no fees to hackers, they keep all their earnings - high price points - we handle invoicing + vetting (clients & hackers) - we have a strong network of mentors to control quality - we're good to our hackers and aim to build a custom experience around their needs. best wishes + happy hacking