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You're right that it was "sexual". However, I'm not sure that the industry has enough average maturity to handle frank discussions of sexuality, especially in b

You're right that it was "sexual". However, I'm not sure that the industry has enough average maturity to handle frank discussions of sexuality, especially in big, diverse groups. Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare". I'm sure you could imagine that the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts. Especially since a lot of women feel like they are already struggling for legitimacy in this industry, which is considered by many to be dealing with a sexism problem

parennoob 13y ago
> Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare". Translation from roundaboutspeak -> English: Yes, it was an app marketed at men (though remember that there are lesbians and bisexual men and women as well that like tits) that sexually objectified women. If sexual objectification was the sole reason that made women leave an industry, there should be no women working for Playboy or the porn industry. Last I checked, there were plenty of women working willingly in both.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  In general, sex workers choose their profession out of desperation.
  - parennoob 13y ago
    Playboy? Hollywood? Advertising?
  - MistahKoala 13y ago
    In general, it depends on where in the world they are, and in general (if we're framing this in terms of the same women for whom a hackathon might be accessible), they are driven by characteristic/ psychological factors (Sexually Transmitted Diseases:Volume 26(2)February 1999). That's also pretty demeaning to women whose choices deserve to be respected, rather than pitied ("poor, silly women!").
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Desperately trying to escape the shittiness of your life through drug abuse, and from there getting into prostitution, is still desperation. Say what you will about respect, but I find it disgusting that our society demeans women by congratulating them for entering sex work as a profession. ("Oh good for you, you made a free choice to take off your panties for me! What a sweet little empowered capitalist you are!") There are plenty of abolitionist women's groups around the world that agree, for example: http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/abolishing-prostitution-a-feminist-human-rights-treaty http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/abolishing-pr...
      - parennoob 13y ago
        Say what you will about personal choice, but I find it empowering that our society enables women by letting them them freely enter sex work as a profession. ^ See what I did there? You believe sex workers are homeless druggies, I believe they are efficient businesswomen. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. At some point, it basically becomes your personal views about exchanging sex for money, and the morality involved therein. Which is exactly what I'm saying about the current fracas -- it is a few people who have quickly-offended personal moralities that have been outraged by TitShare or whatever. Tying it to a larger issue of "this is why women don't work in tech" is a futile exercise.
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Of course morality is personal, what else would it be?
      - MistahKoala 13y ago
        And there are plenty that don't. Presumably you don't claim those women for yourself, though.
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        There are also plenty of women that will tell you they are freely choosing to submit to male authority by wearing a head scarf, or binding their feet which requires breaking the arches so they can fold them in half (in centuries past), or working for significantly less money, or, or, or... In general, I don't take people's words about the freedom of the choices they've made at face value unless they've first convinced me that they're actually free to make those choices, and that includes freedom from longstanding emotional baggage and unresolved internal conflicts.
Amadou 13y ago
the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts. The app was about photos of men staring at breasts, not about actually looking at breasts - the butt of the joke were the men who selfishly stereotype women as being defined by their breasts and act as if their breasts are there for men (e.g. the reference to the recent news story that looking at breasts makes men more healthy even if women don't appreciate being reduced to an object that makes men more healthy). > why not "DongStare" Because it is very common for people (plenty of women have also internalized this behavior) to stereotype women based on their breasts, but it is orders of magnitude less common for people to stereotype men by the bulge in their pants. The joke was about the people who do the stereotyping not about the anatomy itself.

parennoob 13y ago

> Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare". Translation from roundaboutspeak -> English: Yes, it was an app marketed at men (though remember that there are lesbians and bisexual men and women as well that like tits) that sexually objectified women. If sexual objectification was the sole reason that made women leave an industry, there should be no women working for Playboy or the porn industry. Last I checked, there were plenty of women working willingly in both.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
In general, sex workers choose their profession out of desperation.
- parennoob 13y ago
  Playboy? Hollywood? Advertising?
- MistahKoala 13y ago
  In general, it depends on where in the world they are, and in general (if we're framing this in terms of the same women for whom a hackathon might be accessible), they are driven by characteristic/ psychological factors (Sexually Transmitted Diseases:Volume 26(2)February 1999). That's also pretty demeaning to women whose choices deserve to be respected, rather than pitied ("poor, silly women!").
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Desperately trying to escape the shittiness of your life through drug abuse, and from there getting into prostitution, is still desperation. Say what you will about respect, but I find it disgusting that our society demeans women by congratulating them for entering sex work as a profession. ("Oh good for you, you made a free choice to take off your panties for me! What a sweet little empowered capitalist you are!") There are plenty of abolitionist women's groups around the world that agree, for example: http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/abolishing-prostitution-a-feminist-human-rights-treaty http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/abolishing-pr...
    - parennoob 13y ago
      Say what you will about personal choice, but I find it empowering that our society enables women by letting them them freely enter sex work as a profession. ^ See what I did there? You believe sex workers are homeless druggies, I believe they are efficient businesswomen. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. At some point, it basically becomes your personal views about exchanging sex for money, and the morality involved therein. Which is exactly what I'm saying about the current fracas -- it is a few people who have quickly-offended personal moralities that have been outraged by TitShare or whatever. Tying it to a larger issue of "this is why women don't work in tech" is a futile exercise.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Of course morality is personal, what else would it be?
    - MistahKoala 13y ago
      And there are plenty that don't. Presumably you don't claim those women for yourself, though.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        There are also plenty of women that will tell you they are freely choosing to submit to male authority by wearing a head scarf, or binding their feet which requires breaking the arches so they can fold them in half (in centuries past), or working for significantly less money, or, or, or... In general, I don't take people's words about the freedom of the choices they've made at face value unless they've first convinced me that they're actually free to make those choices, and that includes freedom from longstanding emotional baggage and unresolved internal conflicts.

Amadou 13y ago

the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts. The app was about photos of men staring at breasts, not about actually looking at breasts - the butt of the joke were the men who selfishly stereotype women as being defined by their breasts and act as if their breasts are there for men (e.g. the reference to the recent news story that looking at breasts makes men more healthy even if women don't appreciate being reduced to an object that makes men more healthy). > why not "DongStare" Because it is very common for people (plenty of women have also internalized this behavior) to stereotype women based on their breasts, but it is orders of magnitude less common for people to stereotype men by the bulge in their pants. The joke was about the people who do the stereotyping not about the anatomy itself.