4 ms·

The examples in that blog post are discriminatory, and if I were her, I'd be very pissed off. However, the coworkers' comments were directed at her specifically

The examples in that blog post are discriminatory, and if I were her, I'd be very pissed off. However, the coworkers' comments were directed at her specifically. In this case, it's some men saying they like to stare at boobs. It's not saying women are bad programmers, and it certainly doesn't seem like they're trying to say "men are better than women." If anything, it's saying, "We're dumb males. We like to look at boobs. We made a stupid app to look at more boobs." What bothers me is that, as I read some of these comments, I don't see outraged women but rather a bunch of white knights. This is not a big deal; in this particular case, "lighten up."

polemic 13y ago
The point of the post was not to try to give you examples of discriminatory behaviour (and if you think that's the point of the blog post, you've missed the point entirely). When we, as an industry, create an atmosphere that degrades members of our community, it's not adequate to say "lighten up, it's just a joke, get over it". You seem bothered about who is getting outraged. In my case, I'm a programmer who talks to high school children about careers in technology. Several times I've been in a position where I've told young women: "this attitude exists, I'm sorry, we're trying to change it", and to the young men: "this attitude exists, it's up to you to change it". The 9 year old who presented next to those idiots got a real world taste of the industry she's entering, and I sincerely hope she manages to navigate the waters. In the meantime, I'm vocal because I'm fighting the "lighten up" attitude - your attitude - in a younger generation.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I've seen that "lighten up" article posted no less than 4 times in this comment thread, except the unasked elephant in the room appears to be this: At what point precisely does someone's, or a group of someone's comfort factor with a given topic begin to influence whether that topic should be discussed, parodied, subverted, etc? On the left side of that point is where "lighten up" is an acceptable response to someone who is indeed being oversensitive or prudish. This has to be an acceptable response somewhere along this continuum, because the alternative is to censor every single bit of humor ever, because I'm pretty sure I could dig up some person somewhere who is offended by a "why did the chicken cross the road" joke, let alone a reference to sex in any way. On the right side of that point is obvious, where something is clearly and obviously inappropriate and probably damaging. Racial slurs, overtly sexist remarks, etc. So. Where do we draw the line? The fact that this comment thread even exists would tell me that we don't have that nailed down.

polemic 13y ago

The point of the post was not to try to give you examples of discriminatory behaviour (and if you think that's the point of the blog post, you've missed the point entirely). When we, as an industry, create an atmosphere that degrades members of our community, it's not adequate to say "lighten up, it's just a joke, get over it". You seem bothered about who is getting outraged. In my case, I'm a programmer who talks to high school children about careers in technology. Several times I've been in a position where I've told young women: "this attitude exists, I'm sorry, we're trying to change it", and to the young men: "this attitude exists, it's up to you to change it". The 9 year old who presented next to those idiots got a real world taste of the industry she's entering, and I sincerely hope she manages to navigate the waters. In the meantime, I'm vocal because I'm fighting the "lighten up" attitude - your attitude - in a younger generation.

Karunamon 13y ago
I've seen that "lighten up" article posted no less than 4 times in this comment thread, except the unasked elephant in the room appears to be this: At what point precisely does someone's, or a group of someone's comfort factor with a given topic begin to influence whether that topic should be discussed, parodied, subverted, etc? On the left side of that point is where "lighten up" is an acceptable response to someone who is indeed being oversensitive or prudish. This has to be an acceptable response somewhere along this continuum, because the alternative is to censor every single bit of humor ever, because I'm pretty sure I could dig up some person somewhere who is offended by a "why did the chicken cross the road" joke, let alone a reference to sex in any way. On the right side of that point is obvious, where something is clearly and obviously inappropriate and probably damaging. Racial slurs, overtly sexist remarks, etc. So. Where do we draw the line? The fact that this comment thread even exists would tell me that we don't have that nailed down.