17 ms·

An Apology From TechCrunch

79 points by USNetizen 13y ago

andrewljohnson 13y ago
When I first saw the TitStare thing, I thought it was a Google Glass hack to let you stare at boobs without actually looking at them directly. While still a really sexist thing, I thought such an app would be an interesting hack, and make quite a statement about the future of these wearable technologies... might be considered an art project if cast in the right light (and also probably renamed). But a boob-photo sharing app? Sexist and boring.
- subsystem 13y ago
  If something is actually good it rarely has to hide behind something like sexism. It's not like you read xkcd and think "I wish it had more dick jokes".
  - parennoob 13y ago
    No, it's not like you read xkcd and think "I wish it had more dick jokes". I would prefer my xkcd with an extra side order of dick jokes with fries. Please stop generalizing your personal likes and dislikes and rebasing them onto the rest of us.
    - subsystem 13y ago
      Ah, the downfall of HN personified.
yosho 13y ago
Anyone know the details of what happened? Can someone elaborate on this?
- jdstraughan 13y ago
  This. What did I (we) miss?
  - olefoo 13y ago
    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare
- USNetizen 13y ago
  http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-with-titstare-app-and-fa-1274394925 http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...
- jaredsohn 13y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6350331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6350331
deleted 13y ago
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objclxt 13y ago
I think one of two things happened. The first is TechCrunch simply didn't screen the hacks being presented in any way before they went up on stage. The second is they did screen them, but whoever did the screening had no problem with the two problematic submissions. It's pretty clear to me the latter was has occurred, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the language in the apology refers to a failure to "properly screen", rather than screen. Secondly, TechCrunch originally tweeted a link to one of the two hacks in question (subsequently deleted). And finally, it's a high profile event being broadcast live. You're screening the presentations if only to avoid potential legal and liability problems. And it's because of this that I have a hard job taking TechCrunch seriously when they say "we've worked hard to counteract it in our coverage and in our own hiring". It only takes one or two incidents like this to totally undermine any credibility you might have.
- aioprisan 13y ago
  Having gone to the NYC hackathon hosted in May for the last 3 years, I can tell you that the submissions are NEVER screened beforehand. All they want to know is the name and a Tweet-sized pitch.
  - objclxt 13y ago
    That's really surprising to me. Is the NYC hackathon broadcast live as well? The main reason I assumed there was at least some vetting going on was because the potential for legal / embarrassment / etc on a live broadcast is so much greater. Either way, I think it's safe to say they'll probably be looking for a bit more info up front in future.
    - aioprisan 13y ago
      Yes, everything is live as well. There is absolutely no screening, and definitely no pre-approval process for the deck being presented, as most people are working on it right up until they have to go on stage. I was able to find one of my old videos by doing a quick Google search, but nothing more recent: http://on.aol.com/video/mybill-is-demo-hackathon-ny-2011-517176354 http://on.aol.com/video/mybill-is-demo-hackathon-ny-2011-517...
WestCoastJustin 13y ago
Anyone coming here, wondering what happened, there were two presentation which were clearly inappropriate. First one was an app called TitStare, which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination. The second, circle shake, was an app to measure how fast you can jerk your wrist, upload and share your scores, accompanied by a pretty wild presentation. I think the first one must have been a joke, because titstare.com was only registered today: $ whois titstare.com ... Creation Date: 08-sep-2013 Video of the presentations @ http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-with-titstare-app-and-fa-1274394925 http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...
- radiusq 13y ago
  Can we get the names of the presenters?
- yogo 13y ago
  Thanks for the details. I've never read an article I learned nothing from like that one. Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally.
  - david_shaw 13y ago
    > Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally. As opposed to being done accidentally? These presentations were, of course, intended to be jokes. In fact, I'm sure they were designed to be harmless, unoffensive jokes. Who cares? Children and adults who were rightfully offended were all in the audience. TechCrunch showcasing an app designed to turn objectifying women into a social network is absolutely absurd. I'm not a woman, but I also don't think that these types of "jokes" are acceptable at any sort of conference. If you want to joke around with your friends, fine. Hell, if you want to make an app called TitStare on your own time and publish it, great--but for an all-ages industry conference to publicize it? That's wrong. I believe that the tech industry as a whole is doing great work towards being less misogynistic and being more diverse. Stunts like this at well-known events are huge road blocks towards that goal.
farmerjack 13y ago
Are people actually outraged? Since when did hacker culture take such a large turn toward political correctness?
- chrischen 13y ago
  Political correctness is sensitivity to the minority, and is generally not a bad thing.
  - metaphorm 13y ago
    there's a difference between appropriate consideration of minorities and over-the-top political correctness. simply put, intent matters and people need to accept that a reflexive hostility towards puerile male humor does not advance the cause of women.
    - Nutella4 13y ago
      Nope, intent isn't magic. http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/intent-its-fucking-magic/ http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/intent-its-fucki... And puerile male humor is often intended to drive women away from the boys' club.
      - metaphorm 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea intent isn't magical but it is legally meaningful. if our laws recognize that intent matters maybe you ought to also.
        chrischen 13y ago
        So if I drive drunk and mow down a few people... I'm fine as long as I didn't mean to kill people after driving drunk? Intent doesn't always matter, and in this case of puerile humor it doesn't matter. The world could be 99% white, and if I spoke from the perspective of a white person, as if white people are God's gift to humans, I'd be insensitive to the 1% of non-white people. I'd be instilling in the minds of non-white children growing up thinking somehow they are worth less, and are lesser human beings. The whole point of political correctness is that you don't have to actively say negative things about other people, races, or religions to have a negative effect on them. I may not have intended it because of ignorance. I may not have intended it because I have never met a non-white person, and everyone I've met has not been offended by it. But that does not mean my actions are without real consequences to non-white people who happen to hear me when passing by, or from normalizing this action so that later other white people end up adopting this attitude in front of non-white people. The titstare app is pure and simple objectification of women. That 9 year old programmer is coming into an industry and shown that the most interesting thing about her will probably be trumped by her breasts. She's being placed into a culture she can't genuinely adopt (unless she's bisexual or lesbian) because she's not a man. This is alienation. It may not be intentional, but it does have negative effects due to ignorance.
benologist 13y ago
Machine-generated search engine spam is also a problem in our industry, like the machine-generated search engine spam TechCrunch offers at: http://smartphones.techcrunch.com/ http://smartphones.techcrunch.com/ http://tablets.techcrunch.com/ http://tablets.techcrunch.com/ http://digital-cameras.techcrunch.com/ http://digital-cameras.techcrunch.com/ http://laptops.techcrunch.com/ http://laptops.techcrunch.com/ http://headphones.techcrunch.com/ http://headphones.techcrunch.com/ being syndicated from a content farm with > 100,000,000 such junk pages. http://seobook.com/scalable-seo http://seobook.com/scalable-seo
mesozoic 13y ago
From my understanding that hackathon is basically just a way to get free tickets to Disrupt. Thus no one takes it seriously and you get things like this.
- USNetizen 13y ago
  "no one" is your own opinion. Plenty of people take it seriously because the tech industry has a problem with this type of behavior, and these presentations don't help its image any.
- davidedicillo 13y ago
  1) Yes, probably a lot of people was here to get the free ticket (including myself) 2) Most people (including myself) still took it very seriously (proof all the people who worked 20 hours straight and slept on floors for few minutes).
  - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
    It's sad that in hacker culture, forgoing sleep is seen as "taking it seriously". From my experience at game jams, and from the people who run these game jams, skipping on sleep is an almost certain guarantee of failure. Sorry for the off topic.
  - pcerioli 13y ago
    We presented at the hackathon, but how did you get the ticket to Disrupt? We asked and they told us that they were going to email them to us, but so far, no ticket in the email ... ;-/
- jaredsohn 13y ago
  The problem with these particular presentations is that it distorts the whole event. There have been about 250 presentations so far today (and they're still going). You can watch here: http://techcrunch.com/events/disrupt-sf-hackathon-2013/live-video/ http://techcrunch.com/events/disrupt-sf-hackathon-2013/live-...
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USNetizen 13y ago
It's reassuring to see, based on the comments here, that a large majority of HN users see this issue with this type of behavior and are against it. There are still a few I noticed who haven't matured beyond their teen years yet, though.
Swizec 13y ago
I've always wondered why in the US everyone loses their shit over a tittie app, but in Europe you can have billboards containing nothing but naked breasts advertising a conference. Source: http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads-404554/ http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads... Related question: would everyone lose their shit if the app was called GuyStare and was aimed at women to look at hot guys?
- cpayne 13y ago
  That's just how the world works. I don't understand some parts of the middle east where men are apparently going to "overcome with lust" if they see a woman's ankle or her hair...
- angersock 13y ago
  It's because sexism only exists in the United States.
  - deleted 13y ago
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  - estel 13y ago
    No, it doesn't.
    - angersock 13y ago
      (that is the joke you see)
- mcantelon 13y ago
  >advertising a conference The art world has a different culture than the business world.
  - Swizec 13y ago
    Yes. But a lot of people seeing those ads were business people. Some had business meetings in cafeterias overlooked by those giant boob billboards. A lot of the people were elementary school kids on their way to school. etc. etc. It seems if somebody tried to put out a billboard like that in the US the public would be satisfied with nothing less than seppuku.
jessedhillon 13y ago
I'd like to stem a couple of obvious, but inevitable (for HN and some other tech communities) criticisms that are bound to appear: 1) Yes, this stuff is tasteless and offends the sensibilities of most decent adults. (Invariably, someone likes to point out that it offends everyone, and conclude therefore that it can't be misogynistic) 2) Yes, people differ in their tolerances for crudeness in their humor. First, I think most people can agree that none of this was actually even funny -- as in, these presentations did not successfully execute the elements of humor. Second, a hackathon is not the place to get up on stage and pretend to come on the audience. There's audacity -- which, when coupled with other necessary elements can make for a great presentation -- and there's poor taste. 3) Yes, some women will take particular offense to these presentations and they are justified. Allowing a couple of dumbasses to get up and laugh about staring at breasts and dropping terrible puns -- even when their presentation is self-deprecating and they hint that they know how crass they are being -- sends the message that the organizers and the audience accept the premise of the presentation: that leering at women's bodies in a completely unaware manner, is acceptable. It's not -- please let there be nobody who contests that point. (Aside: a woman in a low-cut shirt is not putting her breasts on display for public consumption. And leering is different than looking -- nobody is saying that you aren't allowed to notice the attractiveness of a woman.) Getting up and pretending to inseminate the audience is just gross, and as an act, it is at the same level as the guy in my seventh grade class who drew a full-page phallus in my yearbook. His excuse is that he was thirteen, and assumed that everyone else was as obsessed with his genitals as he was. That people are laughing about this sends another message, and I can understand if women are more sensitive to that message than men -- who were themselves thirteen y/o males at one time. I don't know if I've demonstrated why things like this create an environment where it's hard to say, seriously, that women should get into tech.
- ScottBurson 13y ago
  There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.
  - 13y ago
metaphorm 13y ago
file this under the ever growing file of evidence that the tech industry has lost its sense of humor.
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
  Exactly. Those two guys up on stage really did seem to think they were being funny - where has all the genuine humour in tech presentations gone?
  - metaphorm 13y ago
    its ok to try to be funny and fail at it.
dbecker 13y ago
The circle jerk application had overtones that were sexual, not misogynistic. The presentation may have been inappropriate for this venue, but it's shallow-minded to pretend sexual and sexist are the same thing.
Amadou 13y ago
I watched the two presentations via the valleywag page others have cited. The problem I see with TechCrunch's apology is that they are mixing up terminology. I don't think either presentation was sexist and especially not misogynstic - what they were was sexual. Modern society has a similar problem distinguishing between racist humor and racial humor. While there certainly can be overlap between -ist and -ual humor, my general rule for distinguishing the two is that -ist humor stereotypes to get laughs while -ual humor laughs at the stereotyping. Lots of organizations think the line between the -ist and -ual is too fine and prefer to outright ban the acknowledgment of any issues at all. If we forbid discussion of race at all then you never have to think about whether a topic is racist or racial. Same with sex, if all mention of sex is forbidden then there is no chance of someone saying something sexist. If an organization wants to take such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach that's their prerogative, but they should be clear about it. Don't say "any type of sexism will not be allowed" say "any mention of sex will not be allowed."
- parennoob 13y ago
  This. Ted Dziuba has mentioned the tech industry being extremely sex negative, and him being almost afraid to criticize it because of the inevitable massive backlash he would face. And this is being reinforced by the increasing "don't even mention anything related to sex in a prrrrrofesional setting" approach being taken by a lot of popular organizations these days. For example, just look at github's repository forking message. Before, it used to say the not-very-funny-but-would-still-bring-a-smile-to-your-face "Hardcore forking action". I'd bet good money this was changed to the unassuming dining table due to these same sex-negative, puritanical people who claimed it was somehow making them feel oppressed or uncomfortable. Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity?
  - deleted 13y ago
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  - tallio 13y ago
    >This. 4chan is that way >>> >Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity? Because feminism is invading. If you can't see this, you've probably not been a part of the tech industry for too long.
zainny 13y ago
I wonder if the biggest reason why things like this keep happening is because we're all on a state of "high alert" in the tech community. Hear me out. Right now in the tech world we've got ourselves in a big damn tizzy over anything even slightly sexual in nature. By contrast, almost every single other medium we encounter on a day to day basis (TV, movies, magazines) is HIGHLY sexualised and makes absolutely no apologies for it. I've seen TV ads on primetime more offensive than some of these presentations. I wonder if we're just going to keep running in to this issue again and again in the tech world simply because our standards are so out of whack with what the average person deems appropriate?
- graue 13y ago
  First of all, not everything that's ok in an entertainment medium (TV, movies) is ok in a professional setting. I don't think presentations like these would have been appropriate at a conference of lawyers, doctors, artists, or biologists, either. That said I think this also has to do with the extreme gender imbalance. Tech conferences are very male-dominated. I think the first photo here really gets this across, of the restroom line at another conference in SF: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/ridiculously-long-mens-room-lines-at-tech-conferences-a-photo-essay/276721/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/ridicu... Imagine that you're a woman and you're walking to the restroom, past a line of 40 or 50 men. And now, imagine they've all just seen a "joke" presentation about staring at women's breasts. You might feel like a bit of a target, don't you think? It could be pretty uncomfortable. Whereas, if we had a gender-balanced industry, and if we had, say, 47 men in the men's restroom line and 43 women in the women's restroom line, a presentation like the ones we're discussing would still be offensive and inappropriate, and still really not ok, but it might at least feel less personally threatening.
  - zainny 13y ago
    I think the difference here though is conferences like this are intentionally positioned at being more casual and less formal/professional. I doubt lawyers even have similarly casual conferences of this nature. In the tech world, we've intentionally positioned our conferences to be this way. I honestly think therefore that people will be more likely to bring their normal set of standards to bear in situations like this. Now, I have a question for you. Imagine that you're a woman and you're walking to the restroom, past a line of 40 or 50 men. And now imagine those men have any time recently walked past a magazine store where upon they saw hundreds of magazines depicting women naked (ie. every single magazine store anywhere). Or imagine those men are discussing the latest episode of Boston Legal, a typical TV show depicting a professional setting (legal firm) which contains highly sexualised themes (like, again, pretty much every show on TV today). I'm not saying this is a good thing. I'm simply making the point that the standards people seem to be applying in the tech world seem to me to be completely out of whack with what society in general deems appropriate.
Systemic33 13y ago
Making this to more than a kinda childish joke is more of a problem than the act itself. By elevating this to a "Look how troubled our industry is" kinda thing, its just gonna get more of an issue. The only way this will change is if it doesn't become the naughty thing it is right now. And this seems to be quite a US-centric issue, stemming from the paradoxical opinion about women in US. Anywhere else, this would just have been a funny joke, and everyone would have laughed and thought the people were silly and unproffesional. Anyone who gets offended by this, has more severe issues than the guys who did this.
MistahKoala 13y ago
At least Jizabel and Gawker now have something to write about for the next fortnight.
smoyer 13y ago
So it's come to this? A society that prefers that male nerds spend their time indoors working on a computer screen from an early age is bound to end up with socially inept geeks. The real shame here is that these young (and old?) men don't realize there can be so much more to a relationship than staring. If the parents of these young men won't do their duty (including the whole junior high blind date scenario), I'd suggest that the best course of action for teaching the resulting lepers is the smoyer social skills class. In short, you'll learn the basic syntax of male-female encounters, as well as the all-important order-of-operations as follows: 1) Looking a girl in the eyes (and don't look down) 2) Having a conversation 3) Having another conversation 4) Asking for a date (repeat as needed) 5) Staring (and maybe even touching) with permission Our advanced course features additional materials to help when you need to meet the parents, get engaged, get married and live happily ever after. So there are scenarios where its permissible (and even flattering) to stare, but you geeks are doing it all wrong. </humor> Unfortunately, there's a grain of truth in a lot of what I wrote. Many of you are as dismayed as I am that this happened, but some of you laughed along without realizing you should be uncomfortable. You need help!
gojomo 13y ago
Their promised fix, "every presentation is getting a thorough screening from this hackathon onward", destroys something that was neat about their hackathon: an essentially free minute on stage to do whatever wild/strange thing the entrants wanted. Yes, such freedom means some embarrassments, promotional spam, offensiveness, and weak/unfunny jokes get on stage. But no-prior-restraint errs on the side of project-inclusiveness and free speech, gets the most possible teams/ideas on stage, and avoids the endless rathole discussion of exactly what the "officially enforced content standards" should be. Now, the extra overhead of screening (or debating corner-cases) could easily mean fewer teams on stage, simply because of the extra effort required inside an already chaotic and time-bottlenecked get-on-stage process. Some teams will water down what would have been an interesting/memorable presentation, beyond what's strictly necessary, just knowing a content-screening filter must be passed. With screening in place, appearance-on-stage now implies a level of 'approval' from the organizers that didn't previously exist. That invites further controversies over the precisely-acceptable boundaries, and a bias toward more taboos and caution over time. Ultimately, the people such content-policing is purported to protect may not get a net benefit out of the smaller, tamer forum that results.
- roguecoder 13y ago
  On the other hand, maybe a team that was previously going to take some lazy, stereotypical sexist copout will now stretch themselves to do something novel, or even interesting instead.
johnnyc3po 13y ago
I think everyone needs to lighten up. Men will have to soon stare at the floor when talking to a woman in the work place as prolonged eye contact could be interpreted as sexual harassment. Also, even glancing at her chest will cause immediate dismissal. C'mon....
sashk 13y ago
I don't get what's there to apologize for. Both projects were funny. One of them was distasteful. That's all.
crankywoman 13y ago
Just crass. 15 minutes of fame and they got it. But are they capable of designing and commercialising a real idea? We can all take short cuts to get publicity (I'm thinking of an app called 'check my package' which photographs and then invites comments on mens' anatomy). Poor form from the organisers - in the world of grown up tech we expect better. Plenty of room for fun but not schoolboy stuff.
maxcan 13y ago
Sidenote: I find expressions of religious faith particularly offensive and harmful to children. We should ban any faith related apps from tech conferences.

79 points by USNetizen 13y ago

When I first saw the TitStare thing, I thought it was a Google Glass hack to let you stare at boobs without actually looking at them directly. While still a really sexist thing, I thought such an app would be an interesting hack, and make quite a statement about the future of these wearable technologies... might be considered an art project if cast in the right light (and also probably renamed). But a boob-photo sharing app? Sexist and boring.

subsystem 13y ago
If something is actually good it rarely has to hide behind something like sexism. It's not like you read xkcd and think "I wish it had more dick jokes".
- parennoob 13y ago
  No, it's not like you read xkcd and think "I wish it had more dick jokes". I would prefer my xkcd with an extra side order of dick jokes with fries. Please stop generalizing your personal likes and dislikes and rebasing them onto the rest of us.
  - subsystem 13y ago
    Ah, the downfall of HN personified.

yosho 13y ago

Anyone know the details of what happened? Can someone elaborate on this?

jdstraughan 13y ago
This. What did I (we) miss?
- olefoo 13y ago
  https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare
USNetizen 13y ago
http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-with-titstare-app-and-fa-1274394925 http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...
jaredsohn 13y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6350331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6350331

deleted 13y ago

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objclxt 13y ago

I think one of two things happened. The first is TechCrunch simply didn't screen the hacks being presented in any way before they went up on stage. The second is they did screen them, but whoever did the screening had no problem with the two problematic submissions. It's pretty clear to me the latter was has occurred, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the language in the apology refers to a failure to "properly screen", rather than screen. Secondly, TechCrunch originally tweeted a link to one of the two hacks in question (subsequently deleted). And finally, it's a high profile event being broadcast live. You're screening the presentations if only to avoid potential legal and liability problems. And it's because of this that I have a hard job taking TechCrunch seriously when they say "we've worked hard to counteract it in our coverage and in our own hiring". It only takes one or two incidents like this to totally undermine any credibility you might have.

aioprisan 13y ago
Having gone to the NYC hackathon hosted in May for the last 3 years, I can tell you that the submissions are NEVER screened beforehand. All they want to know is the name and a Tweet-sized pitch.
- objclxt 13y ago
  That's really surprising to me. Is the NYC hackathon broadcast live as well? The main reason I assumed there was at least some vetting going on was because the potential for legal / embarrassment / etc on a live broadcast is so much greater. Either way, I think it's safe to say they'll probably be looking for a bit more info up front in future.
  - aioprisan 13y ago
    Yes, everything is live as well. There is absolutely no screening, and definitely no pre-approval process for the deck being presented, as most people are working on it right up until they have to go on stage. I was able to find one of my old videos by doing a quick Google search, but nothing more recent: http://on.aol.com/video/mybill-is-demo-hackathon-ny-2011-517176354 http://on.aol.com/video/mybill-is-demo-hackathon-ny-2011-517...

WestCoastJustin 13y ago

Anyone coming here, wondering what happened, there were two presentation which were clearly inappropriate. First one was an app called TitStare, which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination. The second, circle shake, was an app to measure how fast you can jerk your wrist, upload and share your scores, accompanied by a pretty wild presentation. I think the first one must have been a joke, because titstare.com was only registered today: $ whois titstare.com ... Creation Date: 08-sep-2013 Video of the presentations @ http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-with-titstare-app-and-fa-1274394925 http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...

radiusq 13y ago
Can we get the names of the presenters?
yogo 13y ago
Thanks for the details. I've never read an article I learned nothing from like that one. Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally.
- david_shaw 13y ago
  > Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally. As opposed to being done accidentally? These presentations were, of course, intended to be jokes. In fact, I'm sure they were designed to be harmless, unoffensive jokes. Who cares? Children and adults who were rightfully offended were all in the audience. TechCrunch showcasing an app designed to turn objectifying women into a social network is absolutely absurd. I'm not a woman, but I also don't think that these types of "jokes" are acceptable at any sort of conference. If you want to joke around with your friends, fine. Hell, if you want to make an app called TitStare on your own time and publish it, great--but for an all-ages industry conference to publicize it? That's wrong. I believe that the tech industry as a whole is doing great work towards being less misogynistic and being more diverse. Stunts like this at well-known events are huge road blocks towards that goal.

farmerjack 13y ago

Are people actually outraged? Since when did hacker culture take such a large turn toward political correctness?

chrischen 13y ago
Political correctness is sensitivity to the minority, and is generally not a bad thing.
- metaphorm 13y ago
  there's a difference between appropriate consideration of minorities and over-the-top political correctness. simply put, intent matters and people need to accept that a reflexive hostility towards puerile male humor does not advance the cause of women.
  - Nutella4 13y ago
    Nope, intent isn't magic. http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/intent-its-fucking-magic/ http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/intent-its-fucki... And puerile male humor is often intended to drive women away from the boys' club.
    - metaphorm 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea intent isn't magical but it is legally meaningful. if our laws recognize that intent matters maybe you ought to also.
      - chrischen 13y ago
        So if I drive drunk and mow down a few people... I'm fine as long as I didn't mean to kill people after driving drunk? Intent doesn't always matter, and in this case of puerile humor it doesn't matter. The world could be 99% white, and if I spoke from the perspective of a white person, as if white people are God's gift to humans, I'd be insensitive to the 1% of non-white people. I'd be instilling in the minds of non-white children growing up thinking somehow they are worth less, and are lesser human beings. The whole point of political correctness is that you don't have to actively say negative things about other people, races, or religions to have a negative effect on them. I may not have intended it because of ignorance. I may not have intended it because I have never met a non-white person, and everyone I've met has not been offended by it. But that does not mean my actions are without real consequences to non-white people who happen to hear me when passing by, or from normalizing this action so that later other white people end up adopting this attitude in front of non-white people. The titstare app is pure and simple objectification of women. That 9 year old programmer is coming into an industry and shown that the most interesting thing about her will probably be trumped by her breasts. She's being placed into a culture she can't genuinely adopt (unless she's bisexual or lesbian) because she's not a man. This is alienation. It may not be intentional, but it does have negative effects due to ignorance.

benologist 13y ago

Machine-generated search engine spam is also a problem in our industry, like the machine-generated search engine spam TechCrunch offers at: http://smartphones.techcrunch.com/ http://smartphones.techcrunch.com/ http://tablets.techcrunch.com/ http://tablets.techcrunch.com/ http://digital-cameras.techcrunch.com/ http://digital-cameras.techcrunch.com/ http://laptops.techcrunch.com/ http://laptops.techcrunch.com/ http://headphones.techcrunch.com/ http://headphones.techcrunch.com/ being syndicated from a content farm with > 100,000,000 such junk pages. http://seobook.com/scalable-seo http://seobook.com/scalable-seo

mesozoic 13y ago

From my understanding that hackathon is basically just a way to get free tickets to Disrupt. Thus no one takes it seriously and you get things like this.

USNetizen 13y ago
"no one" is your own opinion. Plenty of people take it seriously because the tech industry has a problem with this type of behavior, and these presentations don't help its image any.
davidedicillo 13y ago
1) Yes, probably a lot of people was here to get the free ticket (including myself) 2) Most people (including myself) still took it very seriously (proof all the people who worked 20 hours straight and slept on floors for few minutes).
- TheZenPsycho 13y ago
  It's sad that in hacker culture, forgoing sleep is seen as "taking it seriously". From my experience at game jams, and from the people who run these game jams, skipping on sleep is an almost certain guarantee of failure. Sorry for the off topic.
- pcerioli 13y ago
  We presented at the hackathon, but how did you get the ticket to Disrupt? We asked and they told us that they were going to email them to us, but so far, no ticket in the email ... ;-/
jaredsohn 13y ago
The problem with these particular presentations is that it distorts the whole event. There have been about 250 presentations so far today (and they're still going). You can watch here: http://techcrunch.com/events/disrupt-sf-hackathon-2013/live-video/ http://techcrunch.com/events/disrupt-sf-hackathon-2013/live-...

deleted 13y ago

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USNetizen 13y ago

It's reassuring to see, based on the comments here, that a large majority of HN users see this issue with this type of behavior and are against it. There are still a few I noticed who haven't matured beyond their teen years yet, though.

Swizec 13y ago

I've always wondered why in the US everyone loses their shit over a tittie app, but in Europe you can have billboards containing nothing but naked breasts advertising a conference. Source: http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads-404554/ http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads... Related question: would everyone lose their shit if the app was called GuyStare and was aimed at women to look at hot guys?

cpayne 13y ago
That's just how the world works. I don't understand some parts of the middle east where men are apparently going to "overcome with lust" if they see a woman's ankle or her hair...
angersock 13y ago
It's because sexism only exists in the United States.
- deleted 13y ago
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- estel 13y ago
  No, it doesn't.
  - angersock 13y ago
    (that is the joke you see)
mcantelon 13y ago
>advertising a conference The art world has a different culture than the business world.
- Swizec 13y ago
  Yes. But a lot of people seeing those ads were business people. Some had business meetings in cafeterias overlooked by those giant boob billboards. A lot of the people were elementary school kids on their way to school. etc. etc. It seems if somebody tried to put out a billboard like that in the US the public would be satisfied with nothing less than seppuku.

jessedhillon 13y ago

I'd like to stem a couple of obvious, but inevitable (for HN and some other tech communities) criticisms that are bound to appear: 1) Yes, this stuff is tasteless and offends the sensibilities of most decent adults. (Invariably, someone likes to point out that it offends everyone, and conclude therefore that it can't be misogynistic) 2) Yes, people differ in their tolerances for crudeness in their humor. First, I think most people can agree that none of this was actually even funny -- as in, these presentations did not successfully execute the elements of humor. Second, a hackathon is not the place to get up on stage and pretend to come on the audience. There's audacity -- which, when coupled with other necessary elements can make for a great presentation -- and there's poor taste. 3) Yes, some women will take particular offense to these presentations and they are justified. Allowing a couple of dumbasses to get up and laugh about staring at breasts and dropping terrible puns -- even when their presentation is self-deprecating and they hint that they know how crass they are being -- sends the message that the organizers and the audience accept the premise of the presentation: that leering at women's bodies in a completely unaware manner, is acceptable. It's not -- please let there be nobody who contests that point. (Aside: a woman in a low-cut shirt is not putting her breasts on display for public consumption. And leering is different than looking -- nobody is saying that you aren't allowed to notice the attractiveness of a woman.) Getting up and pretending to inseminate the audience is just gross, and as an act, it is at the same level as the guy in my seventh grade class who drew a full-page phallus in my yearbook. His excuse is that he was thirteen, and assumed that everyone else was as obsessed with his genitals as he was. That people are laughing about this sends another message, and I can understand if women are more sensitive to that message than men -- who were themselves thirteen y/o males at one time. I don't know if I've demonstrated why things like this create an environment where it's hard to say, seriously, that women should get into tech.

ScottBurson 13y ago
There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.
- 13y ago

metaphorm 13y ago

file this under the ever growing file of evidence that the tech industry has lost its sense of humor.

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
Exactly. Those two guys up on stage really did seem to think they were being funny - where has all the genuine humour in tech presentations gone?
- metaphorm 13y ago
  its ok to try to be funny and fail at it.

dbecker 13y ago

The circle jerk application had overtones that were sexual, not misogynistic. The presentation may have been inappropriate for this venue, but it's shallow-minded to pretend sexual and sexist are the same thing.

Amadou 13y ago

I watched the two presentations via the valleywag page others have cited. The problem I see with TechCrunch's apology is that they are mixing up terminology. I don't think either presentation was sexist and especially not misogynstic - what they were was sexual. Modern society has a similar problem distinguishing between racist humor and racial humor. While there certainly can be overlap between -ist and -ual humor, my general rule for distinguishing the two is that -ist humor stereotypes to get laughs while -ual humor laughs at the stereotyping. Lots of organizations think the line between the -ist and -ual is too fine and prefer to outright ban the acknowledgment of any issues at all. If we forbid discussion of race at all then you never have to think about whether a topic is racist or racial. Same with sex, if all mention of sex is forbidden then there is no chance of someone saying something sexist. If an organization wants to take such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach that's their prerogative, but they should be clear about it. Don't say "any type of sexism will not be allowed" say "any mention of sex will not be allowed."

parennoob 13y ago
This. Ted Dziuba has mentioned the tech industry being extremely sex negative, and him being almost afraid to criticize it because of the inevitable massive backlash he would face. And this is being reinforced by the increasing "don't even mention anything related to sex in a prrrrrofesional setting" approach being taken by a lot of popular organizations these days. For example, just look at github's repository forking message. Before, it used to say the not-very-funny-but-would-still-bring-a-smile-to-your-face "Hardcore forking action". I'd bet good money this was changed to the unassuming dining table due to these same sex-negative, puritanical people who claimed it was somehow making them feel oppressed or uncomfortable. Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tallio 13y ago
  >This. 4chan is that way >>> >Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity? Because feminism is invading. If you can't see this, you've probably not been a part of the tech industry for too long.

zainny 13y ago

I wonder if the biggest reason why things like this keep happening is because we're all on a state of "high alert" in the tech community. Hear me out. Right now in the tech world we've got ourselves in a big damn tizzy over anything even slightly sexual in nature. By contrast, almost every single other medium we encounter on a day to day basis (TV, movies, magazines) is HIGHLY sexualised and makes absolutely no apologies for it. I've seen TV ads on primetime more offensive than some of these presentations. I wonder if we're just going to keep running in to this issue again and again in the tech world simply because our standards are so out of whack with what the average person deems appropriate?

graue 13y ago
First of all, not everything that's ok in an entertainment medium (TV, movies) is ok in a professional setting. I don't think presentations like these would have been appropriate at a conference of lawyers, doctors, artists, or biologists, either. That said I think this also has to do with the extreme gender imbalance. Tech conferences are very male-dominated. I think the first photo here really gets this across, of the restroom line at another conference in SF: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/ridiculously-long-mens-room-lines-at-tech-conferences-a-photo-essay/276721/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/ridicu... Imagine that you're a woman and you're walking to the restroom, past a line of 40 or 50 men. And now, imagine they've all just seen a "joke" presentation about staring at women's breasts. You might feel like a bit of a target, don't you think? It could be pretty uncomfortable. Whereas, if we had a gender-balanced industry, and if we had, say, 47 men in the men's restroom line and 43 women in the women's restroom line, a presentation like the ones we're discussing would still be offensive and inappropriate, and still really not ok, but it might at least feel less personally threatening.
- zainny 13y ago
  I think the difference here though is conferences like this are intentionally positioned at being more casual and less formal/professional. I doubt lawyers even have similarly casual conferences of this nature. In the tech world, we've intentionally positioned our conferences to be this way. I honestly think therefore that people will be more likely to bring their normal set of standards to bear in situations like this. Now, I have a question for you. Imagine that you're a woman and you're walking to the restroom, past a line of 40 or 50 men. And now imagine those men have any time recently walked past a magazine store where upon they saw hundreds of magazines depicting women naked (ie. every single magazine store anywhere). Or imagine those men are discussing the latest episode of Boston Legal, a typical TV show depicting a professional setting (legal firm) which contains highly sexualised themes (like, again, pretty much every show on TV today). I'm not saying this is a good thing. I'm simply making the point that the standards people seem to be applying in the tech world seem to me to be completely out of whack with what society in general deems appropriate.

Systemic33 13y ago

Making this to more than a kinda childish joke is more of a problem than the act itself. By elevating this to a "Look how troubled our industry is" kinda thing, its just gonna get more of an issue. The only way this will change is if it doesn't become the naughty thing it is right now. And this seems to be quite a US-centric issue, stemming from the paradoxical opinion about women in US. Anywhere else, this would just have been a funny joke, and everyone would have laughed and thought the people were silly and unproffesional. Anyone who gets offended by this, has more severe issues than the guys who did this.

MistahKoala 13y ago

At least Jizabel and Gawker now have something to write about for the next fortnight.

smoyer 13y ago

So it's come to this? A society that prefers that male nerds spend their time indoors working on a computer screen from an early age is bound to end up with socially inept geeks. The real shame here is that these young (and old?) men don't realize there can be so much more to a relationship than staring. If the parents of these young men won't do their duty (including the whole junior high blind date scenario), I'd suggest that the best course of action for teaching the resulting lepers is the smoyer social skills class. In short, you'll learn the basic syntax of male-female encounters, as well as the all-important order-of-operations as follows: 1) Looking a girl in the eyes (and don't look down) 2) Having a conversation 3) Having another conversation 4) Asking for a date (repeat as needed) 5) Staring (and maybe even touching) with permission Our advanced course features additional materials to help when you need to meet the parents, get engaged, get married and live happily ever after. So there are scenarios where its permissible (and even flattering) to stare, but you geeks are doing it all wrong. </humor> Unfortunately, there's a grain of truth in a lot of what I wrote. Many of you are as dismayed as I am that this happened, but some of you laughed along without realizing you should be uncomfortable. You need help!

gojomo 13y ago

Their promised fix, "every presentation is getting a thorough screening from this hackathon onward", destroys something that was neat about their hackathon: an essentially free minute on stage to do whatever wild/strange thing the entrants wanted. Yes, such freedom means some embarrassments, promotional spam, offensiveness, and weak/unfunny jokes get on stage. But no-prior-restraint errs on the side of project-inclusiveness and free speech, gets the most possible teams/ideas on stage, and avoids the endless rathole discussion of exactly what the "officially enforced content standards" should be. Now, the extra overhead of screening (or debating corner-cases) could easily mean fewer teams on stage, simply because of the extra effort required inside an already chaotic and time-bottlenecked get-on-stage process. Some teams will water down what would have been an interesting/memorable presentation, beyond what's strictly necessary, just knowing a content-screening filter must be passed. With screening in place, appearance-on-stage now implies a level of 'approval' from the organizers that didn't previously exist. That invites further controversies over the precisely-acceptable boundaries, and a bias toward more taboos and caution over time. Ultimately, the people such content-policing is purported to protect may not get a net benefit out of the smaller, tamer forum that results.

roguecoder 13y ago
On the other hand, maybe a team that was previously going to take some lazy, stereotypical sexist copout will now stretch themselves to do something novel, or even interesting instead.

johnnyc3po 13y ago

I think everyone needs to lighten up. Men will have to soon stare at the floor when talking to a woman in the work place as prolonged eye contact could be interpreted as sexual harassment. Also, even glancing at her chest will cause immediate dismissal. C'mon....

sashk 13y ago

I don't get what's there to apologize for. Both projects were funny. One of them was distasteful. That's all.

crankywoman 13y ago

Just crass. 15 minutes of fame and they got it. But are they capable of designing and commercialising a real idea? We can all take short cuts to get publicity (I'm thinking of an app called 'check my package' which photographs and then invites comments on mens' anatomy). Poor form from the organisers - in the world of grown up tech we expect better. Plenty of room for fun but not schoolboy stuff.

maxcan 13y ago

Sidenote: I find expressions of religious faith particularly offensive and harmful to children. We should ban any faith related apps from tech conferences.