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Gut Bacteria From Thin Humans Can Slim Mice Down
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jokull 13y agoFor those interested in recent research focusing on the interplay between bacteria and our immune systems, I recommend An Epidemic of Absence by Moises Velasquez-Manoff. Podcast introduction from Chris Kresser: http://chriskresser.com/what-are-the-hidden-costs-of-modern-hygiene http://chriskresser.com/what-are-the-hidden-costs-of-modern-... Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1439199388?tag=chrikres-20&link_code=as3&creative=373489&camp=211189 http://www.amazon.com/dp/1439199388?tag=chrikres-20&link_cod...
- riggins 13y agothanks for the article
- Luc 13y agoHard to tell at a glance whether this "Hygiene Hypothesis" is legitimate science, or wishful thinking on the part of the journalist who wrote the book. I'm leaning towards being rather sceptical.
- Klinky 13y agoIt's not bunk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis Some studies have shown parasites improve the symptoms of certain chronic illnesses, such as Inflammatory Bowel Diseases. Fecal transplantation has also been used to treat chronic digestive ailments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy
- graeme 13y agoYou could do the absolute minimum of due diligence and check if there is a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis It's been extensively studied by epidemiologists and immunologists. There is some experimental evidence to support the theory.
- Luc 13y agoOh, big whoop, some experimental evidence, huh! There's a Wikipedia article about the subject, so that blesses the contents of this book now, does it?
- jokull 13y agoThe premise, the logic stands on its own. We coevolve with other organisms and bacteria, not in a vacuum. So wether there is hard evidence for this or that, regardless it’s an interesting field of study right now and many are looking into it. Sometimes before you have evidence, you need a hypothesis.
- graeme 13y agoI didn't say anything about the book, I haven't read it. You questioned whether the hygiene hypothesis was a real hypothesis. According to my very casual glance at the evidence, it appears to be a hypothesis being actively debated by scientists. I'm not sure what else you might want for a hypothesis to be 'scientifically legitimate'.
- mason240 13y agoI can't wait to start hearing this excuse.
- aaronblohowiak 13y agoIs your comment furthering the intellectual discourse that makes HN different from other news sites?
- grannyg00se 13y ago" the part of the study that most surprised other experts was an experiment indicating that, with the right diet, it might be possible to change the bacteria in a fat person’s gut so that they promote leanness rather than obesity. " Right. So back to the same common sense advice. It would seem wise to simply fix your diet first, maybe throw in a little exercise, and then see what happens. That is, before trying things like fecal transplants.
- loceng 13y agoI think the idea would be that you could fast-track the process, with compounded benefits / amplifying the effects. I've not looked into this much, so not sure if that is a possibility.
- chm 13y agoCommon sense still has to be scientifically tested.
- js2 13y agoIt's more complicated than that. First it's worth quoting the rest of that paragraph: "The investigators discovered that given a chance, and in the presence of a low-fat diet, bacteria from a lean twin will take over the gut of a mouse that already had bacteria from a fat twin. The fat mouse then loses weight. But the opposite does not happen. No matter what the diet, bacteria from a fat mouse do not take over in a mouse that is thin." Second, the context (described later in the article) is among co-habitating mice that eat each other's droppings, allowing their gut flora to commingle. When the mice were kept separate, the mice that had received gut flora from a fat human twin ended up 10-15% heavier even on the identical low-fat diet as the mice that received flora from a thin human. (Aside, because it's personal: I have no trouble controlling my weight through diet and exercise. When I ate poorly and exercised little I was as heavy as 190 lbs. With exercise and being mindful about my diet I have no trouble maintaining 150 lbs. My wife, otoh, has struggled with her weight almost her entire life. To lose weight she has to weigh and track every ounce of food she consumes. It is a constant battle for her. Sadly, I see this dichotomy playing out in our son and daughter. My son will never struggle with his weight; I fear my daughter always may. And we eat well in this house. Real food, mostly plants, not too much. So yeah, I think some people are thin almost no matter what they eat, some struggle with weight almost no matter what they do, and some are more in between. But a holier than thou attitude about being thin helps no one.)
- brentm 13y agoA similar concept is touched upon here: How Fecal Transplants Work - http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/fecal-transplant.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/fecal-tr...
- jvh23 13y agoPoor fat twin.
- danielharan 13y agoIf I were morbidly obese I'd rather have an enema with a thin, healthy person's feces than have a surgeon cut me up and put a band around my stomach to reduce the amount I can eat. Am I the one that's weird? Or is it the doctors who see the fecal transplant as a last-ditch effort only after surgery?
- eksith 13y agoHoly Grand Poobah! I was just about to go out for lunch. I don't think you're unique in your aversion to the knife (I know people who have risked serious long-term health issues by avoiding surgery), but maybe not many people are weird enough to prefer the fecal enema.
- SamanthaGray44 13y agoI'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... http://www.cnn13.com http://www.cnn13.com
- incongruity 13y agoI'm with you 100% -- many bariatric surgeries discard parts of the digestive system – there's no going back (at this point). Given some set of safety precautions (HIV, Hepatitis screening, etc.), I think a lot of people would gladly try the fecal enema instead. I definitely would.
- mahyarm 13y agoI'd rather just force myself to 2000 calories a day before I tried even that.
- danielharan 13y agoIf the culprit is bacteria, why torture yourself with starvation? People have gained weight on half as many calories. 2000 calories hasn't worked for a lot of people, perhaps because the gut bacteria is too efficient and the body alters their metabolism.
- Aqueous 13y ago'"“I’m very excited about this,” he added, saying the next step will be to try using gut bacteria to treat obesity by transplanting feces from thin people. “I have little doubt that that will be the next thing that happens,” Dr. Fischbach said. But Dr. Flier said it was far too soon for that.' I agree. It is far too soon - wait until you've named it something other than 'fecal transplant.' It's a branding issue. Exciting news, though. I think our society uses shame as a motivator way too much. We judge each other far too easily. Thin people take the fact that they are thin for granted, and then accuse fat people of being lazy. As someone who gained a bit of weight recently in the past two years inexplicably and suddenly, having been thin before, with no change in diet or exercise, I wonder how much of this is actually in our direct control, and about the quality of the simple answers we give to shame people into exercising or dieting.
- graeme 13y agoMicrobiotal augmentation?
- Pxtl 13y agoI've got a zillion digestive problems running in my family so I'm actually super-excited by the fecal transplant tech. If I can steal your healthy bowel, I don't care if the idea's a little icky. > wonder how much of this is actually in our direct control, and about the quality of the simple answers we give to shame people into exercising or dieting. There's a contingent of people who find this attitude morally offensive. They worked hard for their health and are disgusted by those who want an easy way... and also people who didn't work hard to stay thin and are thin anyways like the self-congratulatory notion that they're doing something right. Every time a new weight-loss tech appears you get people ranting about diet and excersize and the offensive nature of this "shortcut". I'm reminded how Socrates was offended by the growth of writing because it was somehow morally inferior to memorization.
- Aqueous 13y agoYep. There will always be people complaining that technology makes us lazy. I think that's a good thing, because if there's no meaningful difference in our health, the time we spent trying to fend off the weight gain we could be spending doing other, less self-involved things thanks to technology. I'm working hard to lose my extra weight. I run 3 miles every morning before breakfast. I've changed my diet and have been actively trying to eat less. Still, the pounds are coming off extraordinarily slowly. I'm not totally sure I'll ever be the weight I started again.
- StacyC 13y agoThe Paleo Diet (or something similar) has also worked well for many people in losing weight and just feeling better overall. The culprit seems to be less about calories and exercise than about eliminating carbs, sugar and processed foods. There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence to support this, and I can just add that my wife and I started on it nine weeks ago and we have never felt better. I even dropped a few pounds although I didn't really need to. We also supplement with probiotics to ensure that we maintain good levels of healthy bacteria in the gut, which is where much of our immune system functions.
- yeahsure 13y agoI'm currently doing a Keto diet (very similar to Paleo) and -at least for me- this is definitely the case. I'm addicted to carbs. I cut carbs and I immediately start losing weight and forget about constant hunger. Whenever I eat anything with carbs, my weight loss stalls and I start having cravings again, all the time. Edit: Oh, and by the way, I've lost 40 lbs since I started :-)
- vl 13y agoCould you tell more about what version of paleo are you doing? Do you buy prepared on cook yourself?
- acchow 13y agoCutting carbs? Anecdotal evidence to support it? How about anecdotal evidence against it - see 2 billion+ Asians, esp. Japanese.
- snowwrestler 13y agoI think one reason the paleo diet works for so many people is that most people are just bad at predicting the caloric content of food. So they think they are taking in about the same amount as before, but actually it has dropped significantly. As an example: every single sandwich on the menu at Applebees, including the grilled cheese and the veggie burger, has more calories than the 12oz New York strip steak. The BLT has nearly 3x as many calories! Another reason is that because it has such specific dietary guidelines, it tends to encourage people to prepare their own food rather than eat out. This alone drops more calories than people think, because of how most restaurants prepare food (with a ton of sugar, butter, fat, and oil). I do agree that it delivers more nutrients than packaged food, which would improve health and make people feel better. It's easier to continue putting up with inconvenience if we feel better.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ha-ha-ha 13y agoMakes me wonder. Bacteria in fat humans are probably more efficient at breaking food for energy. How about the reverse, take "fat" bacteria and give it to poor people in Africa or astronauts on a mission to Mars.
- trekky1700 13y agoAre we going to see an emerging trend with thin college students donating gut bacteria instead of the more traditional paid donations?