3 ms·

>I have also never seen a case of autism. What? You can't tell just by looking at someone if they have autism. You must have some sort of preconceived notions

by aestra 13y ago

>I have also never seen a case of autism. What? You can't tell just by looking at someone if they have autism. You must have some sort of preconceived notions of what autism looks like. For example, here is two people in my family with autism (they are identical twins) http://i.imgur.com/9PP5O6T.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9PP5O6T.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aedlKYR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aedlKYR.jpg Rather than saying something incredibly ignorant like "I've never seen it," why don't we use science? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673699012398 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673699... http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=197365 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=197365 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134 Those are just some peer reviewed scientific publications disproving any association between autism and vaccines. If you aren't looking at real facts, you are just as bad as the anti-vacciners. NOW, lets talk about how this got started. The association was started by one study authored by Andrew Wakefield and published in The Lancet. Andrew Wakfield had serious conflicts of interests and it was later found he was paid money by British trial lawyers to prove the vaccine was dangerous so the lawyers could get rich suing. Hundreds of thousands of pounds we are talking. It was found he had manipulated evidence and broken other ethical codes to publish that paper in The Lancet. The Lancet paper was partially retracted in 2004 and fully retracted in 2010, and Wakefield was found guilty by the General Medical Council of serious professional misconduct in May 2010 and was struck off the Medical Register, meaning he could no longer practice medicine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

mpyne 13y ago
I think he simply meant that he's never met someone with autism, in his experience. The point to that being that, if vaccines do cause autism, he should have met someone with autism. The fact that he didn't seems to argue against the hypothesis that vaccines do cause autism.
- aestra 13y ago
  My point, how does the grandparent know he's never met someone with autism? Autism isn't always a visible disease. The faces of autism are the faces of everyday people. My guess is they have meet or seen an autistic person, and didn't know they were autistic because they have some kind of preconceived notion of what an autistic person looks or sounds like or acts like. Look at the pictures I posted above of my two autistic family members, if you were to see them out and about, would you think "there's some autistic kids?" Well, they aren't kids anymore, they are in their early 20s.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - notacoward 13y ago
    You're reading a lot into "seen" here. FYI, it's often used to mean "observed" or "known" generally, not necessarily in a visual or superficial sense. When addressing an argument about the supposed autism risk of vaccines, both prevalence and severity matter. If the severity of the effect is so low that these individuals do not present as autistic during normal interaction, then the risks of vaccination compared to the risks of measles/polio/etc. could be considered low despite high prevalence (which as far as anyone knows is not the case anyway). BTW, are you aware what impression people might gain from the the vehemence and narrow focus (missing the broader point) of your response, in a discussion of anything related to the autism spectrum? Maybe you should work on reining in that behaviour instead of indulging it.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > The faces of autism are the faces of everyday people. My oldest son has an ASD. I'm very familiar with the idea that those with a form of autism are not those who simply "look autistic".
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >The fact that he didn't seems to argue against the hypothesis that vaccines do cause autism. It does no such thing.

by aestra 13y ago

mpyne 13y ago

I think he simply meant that he's never met someone with autism, in his experience. The point to that being that, if vaccines do cause autism, he should have met someone with autism. The fact that he didn't seems to argue against the hypothesis that vaccines do cause autism.

aestra 13y ago
My point, how does the grandparent know he's never met someone with autism? Autism isn't always a visible disease. The faces of autism are the faces of everyday people. My guess is they have meet or seen an autistic person, and didn't know they were autistic because they have some kind of preconceived notion of what an autistic person looks or sounds like or acts like. Look at the pictures I posted above of my two autistic family members, if you were to see them out and about, would you think "there's some autistic kids?" Well, they aren't kids anymore, they are in their early 20s.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- notacoward 13y ago
  You're reading a lot into "seen" here. FYI, it's often used to mean "observed" or "known" generally, not necessarily in a visual or superficial sense. When addressing an argument about the supposed autism risk of vaccines, both prevalence and severity matter. If the severity of the effect is so low that these individuals do not present as autistic during normal interaction, then the risks of vaccination compared to the risks of measles/polio/etc. could be considered low despite high prevalence (which as far as anyone knows is not the case anyway). BTW, are you aware what impression people might gain from the the vehemence and narrow focus (missing the broader point) of your response, in a discussion of anything related to the autism spectrum? Maybe you should work on reining in that behaviour instead of indulging it.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > The faces of autism are the faces of everyday people. My oldest son has an ASD. I'm very familiar with the idea that those with a form of autism are not those who simply "look autistic".
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>The fact that he didn't seems to argue against the hypothesis that vaccines do cause autism. It does no such thing.