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"GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. The GNU project is responsible for many of the crucial parts responsible for making a complete OS, save for t

by chatman 13y ago

"GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. The GNU project is responsible for many of the crucial parts responsible for making a complete OS, save for the kernel. Abbreviating the OS with "Linux", for the sake of convenience, should be avoided in order to give the GNU project its due credit.

derleth 13y ago
> "GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. The GNU project is responsible for many of the crucial parts responsible for making a complete OS So is X.org, the KDE project, the Mozilla project, and a number of other projects which aren't as well-known. So should it be X.org/KDE/Mozilla/OpenSSH/GNU/Linux? If not, why not?
- chatman 13y ago
  Because X, KDE, GNOME etc. were all built using the core tools that GNU project provides. Most notably the gcc compiler. The Android system uses the Linux kernel, but should people refer to the OS as "Linux" or "Android"? I think even calling that as Linux is fine, as long as people understand its just the kernel that they are calling out. The OS is either GNU/Linux (desktop/server OS) or Android (the mobile phone OS).
  - eropple 13y ago
    GNU's core tools were built with non-GNU stuff like Vim and valgrind, but you don't see them getting special mention either. And much of the modern userland requires, say, Python to function! No mention there, either. The idea that part of the userland deserves a special mention (but no, not the rest, just GNU) is over-privileged attention-seeking. The convention has generally become that Linux-kernel operating systems are called "Linux". But you have options if this offends you so. If you don't like that, Debian's over there and willing to play along, and if you really don't like it, I hear that GNU has a kernel of their own rattling somewhere around gnu.org.
  - txutxu 13y ago
    So we are using GNU/OpenBSD too? because of gcc ? Years ago, I used to joke with friends starting with ubuntu, that they were using really adobe/nvidia/broadcom/micrososoft/oracle/etc/gnu/linux.
  - Ziomislaw 13y ago
    well I certainly didn't use gcc (pcc/clang). does that apply to me too? you GNU terrorists are funny, thinking you can go and claim others ppl work by attaching "GNU" prefix to a projects name and lying to everyone how it _is_ gnu. Unfortunately Linux is only GPL2 (and that too was a mistake as we can see from the above example - Linus said something about it too as I recall).
    - chatman 13y ago
      GNU terrorist? Look up the history of the operating system and you'll find that GNU and Linux kernel were both equally responsible for putting together a free and open source operating system. Before the GNU project, Linux kernel was on proprietary license.
  - yxhuvud 13y ago
    So by that reasoning FreeBSD is turning from GNU/FreeBSD to Apple/FreeBSD as they change from gcc to clang? Don't be ridiculous. [edit]: spelling
na85 13y ago
The argot is what it is. "g'nuu slash linux" is such a horribly awkward thing to say that it will never, ever supplant the two syllable short form.
Jasper_ 13y ago
> "GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. It's great we're talking about the kernel codebase then!
tzs 13y ago
That's not how OS naming works. Historically, naming rights for an OS go to whoever actually puts together and distributes the complete system. For instance, if a workstation company licensed Unix from AT&T and ported it to their workstation, they got to name that OS whatever they wanted. A couple examples of this were Uniplus+, which was UniSoft's Unix, and 386/ix, which was Interactive System Corporation's Unix. Both were Unix systems--they used a Unix kernel and Unix utilities--but that wasn't their names. Half the fun working at a Unix workstation company in the early '80s was thinking of a neat name for your Unix port. :-) For the complete systems distributed by Canonical, Red Hat, and the like, they are the ones who get to name the operating systems that they distribute. Ubuntu calls their OS the "Ubuntu operating system". Red Hat calls their OS "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". Yes, they are also GNU systems, but if we want to be historically accurate, the most correct way to view this would be to view "GNU system" and "GNU/Linux" as specifications for a specific Unix-like userspace and for an OS that runs the GNU system on a Linux kernel, respectively. The Ubuntu operating system complies with the GNU system specification and is a GNU/Linux system, but it is named Ubuntu operating system.
- javert 13y ago
  Thanks, I didn't expect to ever read anything insightful about this debate.
- aninhumer 13y ago
  While this inversion of the usual prescriptivist argument for "GNU/Linux" is amusing and interesting, I feel it's worth stating the more general objection as well: It's called Linux because we call it Linux. That is how language works. It doesn't matter about the official name or the etymology, if the population typically uses a certain term for something, that is the "correct" term. Now there are lots of arguments for preferring an atypical term in some situations. Official names in more formal contexts, genderless nouns to avoid excluding people, and indeed "GNU/Linux" to promote the GNU project. But these are choices we make, and are not something to be forced on people who don't necessarily agree with the reasoning behind them.
  - chatman 13y ago
jlgreco 13y ago
Hey, I use Busybox/Linux you insensitive clod!
rdc12 13y ago
This distraction has been done to death, how about discusing what the article was actually about

by chatman 13y ago

derleth 13y ago

> "GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. The GNU project is responsible for many of the crucial parts responsible for making a complete OS So is X.org, the KDE project, the Mozilla project, and a number of other projects which aren't as well-known. So should it be X.org/KDE/Mozilla/OpenSSH/GNU/Linux? If not, why not?

chatman 13y ago
Because X, KDE, GNOME etc. were all built using the core tools that GNU project provides. Most notably the gcc compiler. The Android system uses the Linux kernel, but should people refer to the OS as "Linux" or "Android"? I think even calling that as Linux is fine, as long as people understand its just the kernel that they are calling out. The OS is either GNU/Linux (desktop/server OS) or Android (the mobile phone OS).
- eropple 13y ago
  GNU's core tools were built with non-GNU stuff like Vim and valgrind, but you don't see them getting special mention either. And much of the modern userland requires, say, Python to function! No mention there, either. The idea that part of the userland deserves a special mention (but no, not the rest, just GNU) is over-privileged attention-seeking. The convention has generally become that Linux-kernel operating systems are called "Linux". But you have options if this offends you so. If you don't like that, Debian's over there and willing to play along, and if you really don't like it, I hear that GNU has a kernel of their own rattling somewhere around gnu.org.
- txutxu 13y ago
  So we are using GNU/OpenBSD too? because of gcc ? Years ago, I used to joke with friends starting with ubuntu, that they were using really adobe/nvidia/broadcom/micrososoft/oracle/etc/gnu/linux.
- Ziomislaw 13y ago
  well I certainly didn't use gcc (pcc/clang). does that apply to me too? you GNU terrorists are funny, thinking you can go and claim others ppl work by attaching "GNU" prefix to a projects name and lying to everyone how it _is_ gnu. Unfortunately Linux is only GPL2 (and that too was a mistake as we can see from the above example - Linus said something about it too as I recall).
  - chatman 13y ago
    GNU terrorist? Look up the history of the operating system and you'll find that GNU and Linux kernel were both equally responsible for putting together a free and open source operating system. Before the GNU project, Linux kernel was on proprietary license.
- yxhuvud 13y ago
  So by that reasoning FreeBSD is turning from GNU/FreeBSD to Apple/FreeBSD as they change from gcc to clang? Don't be ridiculous. [edit]: spelling

na85 13y ago

The argot is what it is. "g'nuu slash linux" is such a horribly awkward thing to say that it will never, ever supplant the two syllable short form.

Jasper_ 13y ago

> "GNU/Linux" is the OS, "Linux" is just the kernel. It's great we're talking about the kernel codebase then!

tzs 13y ago

That's not how OS naming works. Historically, naming rights for an OS go to whoever actually puts together and distributes the complete system. For instance, if a workstation company licensed Unix from AT&T and ported it to their workstation, they got to name that OS whatever they wanted. A couple examples of this were Uniplus+, which was UniSoft's Unix, and 386/ix, which was Interactive System Corporation's Unix. Both were Unix systems--they used a Unix kernel and Unix utilities--but that wasn't their names. Half the fun working at a Unix workstation company in the early '80s was thinking of a neat name for your Unix port. :-) For the complete systems distributed by Canonical, Red Hat, and the like, they are the ones who get to name the operating systems that they distribute. Ubuntu calls their OS the "Ubuntu operating system". Red Hat calls their OS "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". Yes, they are also GNU systems, but if we want to be historically accurate, the most correct way to view this would be to view "GNU system" and "GNU/Linux" as specifications for a specific Unix-like userspace and for an OS that runs the GNU system on a Linux kernel, respectively. The Ubuntu operating system complies with the GNU system specification and is a GNU/Linux system, but it is named Ubuntu operating system.

javert 13y ago
Thanks, I didn't expect to ever read anything insightful about this debate.
aninhumer 13y ago
While this inversion of the usual prescriptivist argument for "GNU/Linux" is amusing and interesting, I feel it's worth stating the more general objection as well: It's called Linux because we call it Linux. That is how language works. It doesn't matter about the official name or the etymology, if the population typically uses a certain term for something, that is the "correct" term. Now there are lots of arguments for preferring an atypical term in some situations. Official names in more formal contexts, genderless nouns to avoid excluding people, and indeed "GNU/Linux" to promote the GNU project. But these are choices we make, and are not something to be forced on people who don't necessarily agree with the reasoning behind them.
- chatman 13y ago

jlgreco 13y ago

Hey, I use Busybox/Linux you insensitive clod!

rdc12 13y ago

This distraction has been done to death, how about discusing what the article was actually about