5 ms·

> Most people have not lived in a time of plagues or remember their effects. Most people do not read history or look at the morbidity and mortality of vaccine-p

> Most people have not lived in a time of plagues or remember their effects. Most people do not read history or look at the morbidity and mortality of vaccine-preventable illnesses in the third world. This is another great example of why people need to be taught actual history, not the version censored "for their young minds". The people who change curricula and edit textbooks to remove the unpleasant memories, or forward an agenda, do a disservice to everyone[1]. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/14/backstory-how-the-texas-t_n_496831.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/14/backstory-how-the-t...

sliverstorm 13y ago
I think people's own minds provide some of that effect. Firstly, secretly wondering if the numbers aren't being exaggerated for effect and that sort of thinking. Secondly, it's difficult to really wrap your head around a disease that killed a third of the population. It's so ridiculous it's hard to fathom.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Polio existed in the US within the memories of many people still alive.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Sure, but polio was virtually eliminated in America by 1980, and how old were today's non-vaccinating parents in 1980? Or 1953, for that matter- the year of the last polio outbreak?
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      The age gaps are large, but I remember my grandmother being debilitated by polio. She wore leg braces most of her life and had trouble moving around the few years I knew her (she passed in the 1980s). There is no need to have witnessed polio directly to have a sense of the awful potential it carries. The whole idea of people living attached to ventilators should be enough for any quasi rational individual.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Well, 2 things: 1) At this point polio survivors really are pretty rare 2) Since polio is now a kind of historical gremlin ,you don't learn to fear it. Even if you meet people scarred by it, you have practically zero risk of contracting it.
    - ganeumann 13y ago
      Re polio: read "Splendid Solution: Jonas Salk and the Conquest of Polio", it tells the story of the fear that polio inspired and the public health efforts--including taking sick children away from their parents, forcibly if necessary--that it occasioned. Although not as widespread as the flu, polio was far more feared because of its seeming random occurrence and often debilitating effects on even its survivors. I'm not one to call things miracles. But if I were, the progress of anti-microbials in the century to the 1950s would be the one. Vaccines, sulpha drugs, antibiotics... it's interesting that this wave of science-driven discovery is given such short shrift among the tech community, it has certainly (alright, arguably) made a greater difference to our species than any other thing we've done.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    There are people still alive today that lived through the Spanish Flu. They are pretty damn old today and they were young then, but there are many more people alive today that lost immediate family members to it and many more that lost extended family members to it. That shit wiped out something like 5% of the world. Yet even in this thread we see people who seem to think that flus are a laughing matter.
    - codyb 13y ago
      I hate that. The spanish flu killed my great grandfather at 28 years of age right of the boat and people tell me "flu vaccine is bs. Vaccines are bs. Flu is a bunch of shit. I'll do fine against any flu.". I don't know. The ignorance bothers me. Most of these people haven't even heard of the Spanish flu much less know it killed around 50 million people including plenty who were very fit, young, and healthy.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    I am 40. I know only one person who had polio (as a child); a teacher of mine from my high school. I also saw an iron lung once, but it wasn't in use.
jmadsen 13y ago
The sad thing is, one of the worst pandemics in human history is fairly recent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic There are (a few) people alive today who remember it. It killed between 1.5 and 3 times as many people as the earlier WWI - but isn't as sexy as war, so hardly anyone studies it (relatively speaking)
- dhughes 13y ago
  Killing about 5% of the entire population of the world about 100 million people, just imagine now with seven billion if a flu outbreak killed 350 million people. Even people on remote islands in the middle of oceans died from the flu.
  - aestra 13y ago
    That's amazing, that's more than the population of the United States.
  - pyre 13y ago
    > Even people on remote islands in the middle of oceans died from the flu. Without contact from the outside world?
    - dhughes 13y ago
      It was avian based influenza, birds spread it to remote areas of the world.
- wusher 13y ago
  Also, the pandemic was made worse due to over medicating the sick http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.ht...
  - ejstronge 13y ago
    I hadn't heard about this so I looked up the primary reference[1]. I'm not sure that high aspirin regimens (the overmedication you're referring to) would explain the high mortality of the flu outside the U.S. Further, the author of the study cautions that this is a correlation that could be important given our changed understanding of aspirin toxicity and not a proven finding. [1] http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/9/1405 http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/9/1405

sliverstorm 13y ago

I think people's own minds provide some of that effect. Firstly, secretly wondering if the numbers aren't being exaggerated for effect and that sort of thinking. Secondly, it's difficult to really wrap your head around a disease that killed a third of the population. It's so ridiculous it's hard to fathom.

rhizome 13y ago
Polio existed in the US within the memories of many people still alive.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Sure, but polio was virtually eliminated in America by 1980, and how old were today's non-vaccinating parents in 1980? Or 1953, for that matter- the year of the last polio outbreak?
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    The age gaps are large, but I remember my grandmother being debilitated by polio. She wore leg braces most of her life and had trouble moving around the few years I knew her (she passed in the 1980s). There is no need to have witnessed polio directly to have a sense of the awful potential it carries. The whole idea of people living attached to ventilators should be enough for any quasi rational individual.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Well, 2 things: 1) At this point polio survivors really are pretty rare 2) Since polio is now a kind of historical gremlin ,you don't learn to fear it. Even if you meet people scarred by it, you have practically zero risk of contracting it.
  - ganeumann 13y ago
    Re polio: read "Splendid Solution: Jonas Salk and the Conquest of Polio", it tells the story of the fear that polio inspired and the public health efforts--including taking sick children away from their parents, forcibly if necessary--that it occasioned. Although not as widespread as the flu, polio was far more feared because of its seeming random occurrence and often debilitating effects on even its survivors. I'm not one to call things miracles. But if I were, the progress of anti-microbials in the century to the 1950s would be the one. Vaccines, sulpha drugs, antibiotics... it's interesting that this wave of science-driven discovery is given such short shrift among the tech community, it has certainly (alright, arguably) made a greater difference to our species than any other thing we've done.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  There are people still alive today that lived through the Spanish Flu. They are pretty damn old today and they were young then, but there are many more people alive today that lost immediate family members to it and many more that lost extended family members to it. That shit wiped out something like 5% of the world. Yet even in this thread we see people who seem to think that flus are a laughing matter.
  - codyb 13y ago
    I hate that. The spanish flu killed my great grandfather at 28 years of age right of the boat and people tell me "flu vaccine is bs. Vaccines are bs. Flu is a bunch of shit. I'll do fine against any flu.". I don't know. The ignorance bothers me. Most of these people haven't even heard of the Spanish flu much less know it killed around 50 million people including plenty who were very fit, young, and healthy.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  I am 40. I know only one person who had polio (as a child); a teacher of mine from my high school. I also saw an iron lung once, but it wasn't in use.

jmadsen 13y ago

The sad thing is, one of the worst pandemics in human history is fairly recent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic There are (a few) people alive today who remember it. It killed between 1.5 and 3 times as many people as the earlier WWI - but isn't as sexy as war, so hardly anyone studies it (relatively speaking)

dhughes 13y ago
Killing about 5% of the entire population of the world about 100 million people, just imagine now with seven billion if a flu outbreak killed 350 million people. Even people on remote islands in the middle of oceans died from the flu.
- aestra 13y ago
  That's amazing, that's more than the population of the United States.
- pyre 13y ago
  > Even people on remote islands in the middle of oceans died from the flu. Without contact from the outside world?
  - dhughes 13y ago
    It was avian based influenza, birds spread it to remote areas of the world.
wusher 13y ago
Also, the pandemic was made worse due to over medicating the sick http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.ht...
- ejstronge 13y ago
  I hadn't heard about this so I looked up the primary reference[1]. I'm not sure that high aspirin regimens (the overmedication you're referring to) would explain the high mortality of the flu outside the U.S. Further, the author of the study cautions that this is a correlation that could be important given our changed understanding of aspirin toxicity and not a proven finding. [1] http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/9/1405 http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/9/1405