7 ms·

$349 Ubuntu Linux Desktop

66 points by samspenc 13y ago

nate_martin 13y ago
This is kind of underwhelming given that we already have the Raspberry Pi.
- shanpc 13y ago
  Thanks for the feedback! Our motivation for this project was to accelerate the growth of PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed on them, particularly at a low price point. We looked at the Raspberry Pi, but it provides too little CPU horsepower for most basic computing chores - its hard to run a decent GUI or browse the web on it. Not knocking the Pi one bit here (!), but we think a desktop computer would need a bit more firepower than the Pi. Also, being a crowdfunded project, we're able to provide this at a price-point that System76, ZaReason and other pre-installed Linux providers aren't able to provide right now (they're great companies too, so do support them if you like Linux pre-installed on your desktops/laptops!)
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  I love the 3 Raspberry Pis I have, but this thing would eat them for breakfast for general computing tasks where size and power consumption aren't huge issues. Having said that, Acer, ASUS, Lenovo and others make "nettop" devices that are very similar to this one. Generally theirs are cheaper but with 2GB RAM standard and no SSD... for about the same price as this one you could get one of those others plus the extra RAM and a (small) SSD today at the advertised price... just with slightly more work in upgrading the RAM, swapping out the drive and installing Ubuntu yourself. The extra work seems like a small price to pay though for getting a system right now instead of putting down money and getting a system in 2014. That sort of long lag time to delivery without any sort of associated price break is what killed the Ubuntu Edge phone for me, and I can't see myself investing in this thing either (sorry @shanpc).
  - orclev 13y ago
    That was pretty much my reaction as well. I built a small system similar to this for my grandmother a couple years ago. If I recall I paid about $150 for the base system, and another ~$150 for an SSD for it for a grand total of $300 plus a little extra for a keyboard/mouse and a USB DVD drive. Initially installed Ubuntu on it, but later swapped it out for Mint on account of Unity just getting way too weird. Basically you could do this yourself for right around the exact same price point if not a bit cheaper with the minor inconvenience of installing the OS yourself.
  - shawn-furyan 13y ago
    In my experience, Ubuntu doesn't run well on Atom. Perceived performance is far inferior to, say a $260 Nexus 7. Even if I knew someone who wanted a low-end desktop, I would not recommend they support this project because of the enormous performance disparity between the two possible processor families (Atom vs. Celeron). If the project were to come to fruition, and you ended up with an Atom, it would be enormously disappointing. And let's face it, these days, if you're not willing to put together a desktop (which you can trivially do at this price point assuming you're willing to make the same price/performance tradeoffs), you're probably not in the market for a desktop, but rather a laptop or a tablet. That's just where the market is at these days.
drivebyacct2 13y ago
Holy god that's twice as expensive as it should be. Easily. edit: Oh, it's the Atom. Why? You're in Linux land, get rid of that x86 garbage for that sort of form factor. When you can buy $75 HDMI dongles that run Ubuntu and have 2GB of memory...
shanpc 13y ago
Thanks for posting this on Hacker News! :) This is our first crowdfunding project, and we're super excited to be putting together a low-cost desktop system with Ubuntu pre-installed! Feel free to ask us questions here or on the Indiegogo page, as well as providing any feedback. We'll try our best to answer questions - even over the weekend if possible. ;)
- codelust 13y ago
  I had recently given up 4-years of living with OS X to get back to Linux - elementaryOS, to be precise. This is a product that has been long due, but for some reason never gets built. 5-6 years ago, driver support etc was the main reason, but it is no longer the case. If this has to work, it has to work exceedingly well for all the possible use cases out-of-the-box. If it can't do what it is meant to do at the first go, make sure you put up simple and clear instructions as to how to go about it. The moment you hit the legendary "show me your lspci output" point you would have lost the game, no matter how good the specs are. That said, a week of fiddling and my dev platform is the same as the one that I had on OS X. So, it is not like it can't be done. Good luck :)
devanti 13y ago
pretty expensive given the specs..
- shanpc 13y ago
  We wanted to price it below $300, but were a bit nervous since Indiegogo/Kickstarter take about 10% including the payments system (Amazon/PayPal), so we're pricing it safe. We'll certainly try to provide the best hardware we can at the price we can get it - who knows, maybe we can throw in an i3 processor or 128 GB SSD! Also, we are pricing it below most of System76/ZaReason offerings - I think if you look at Dell/HP offerings at the same price range, they provide similar specs. But if we get the volume we need, we should be able to get much better hardware.
  - eropple 13y ago
    Exactly how much research have you done to buttress that "should"?
oscilloscope 13y ago
You need to put a bit more care into filming to build confidence in the offering. YouTube's auto-stabilization at 1:30 really puts me off. Especially since you're featuring HD video. The screen is washed out and blue-shifted at that point as well. A few high-quality pictures of the PC in good light would help too. The video features the monitor more than the PC itself.
- shanpc 13y ago
  Good point, will see if we can do better with the video.
ch4ch4 13y ago
I don't see any value add... are you just reselling SFF PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled? What makes this Kickstarter special?
- shanpc 13y ago
  We're pricing it at below what most of what System76's base models come at. We were unable to find any systems with Ubuntu pre-installed at this price point, which is what motivated us to do this.
  - davis_m 13y ago
    It is priced well below what System76 offers, but the specs aren't in any way compareable. The cheapest System76 desktop comes with an i5 minimum. Your machine is offering a celeron/atom. You are comparing apples to oranges.
    - shanpc 13y ago
      Definitely, agreed on that point. But we think there is a market for those low-cost devices with Ubuntu pre-installed that System76 is not catering for, and that's why we're trying to do this. But agreed on the apples to oranges comparison, thanks for pointing that out. We're totally not knocking System76 here, we think those guys are doing a great job! Apologies if we seemed to imply that in our replies.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    Suggestion: http://www.alibaba.com/products/F0/i3_cpu_ssd/CID701.html http://www.alibaba.com/products/F0/i3_cpu_ssd/CID701.html Don't see something you like send three of the manufacturers your spec. $200 - $250 all up with 4G memory and 128GB SSD. Drop shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed no problem, you buy now? Seriously there are a bunch of these guys who have family members in the Bay Area at least trying to sell me machines for the office. I like to give them a challenge like "mini-itx form factor and 16GB of ECC memory under $300" drives 'em nuts.
DocG 13y ago
I think I am missing something. 349 is pretty big price tag, I don't think it is low-cost. I had a lot of examples and reasons lined up in here, but I think I am missing something. But what? EDIT: I think I am missing the part where you are making it black and white clear what makes your system different and why is it good deal for that kind of money. At the moment, I can see it why it would be worth the money. Good luck anyway:)
- shanpc 13y ago
  Thanks! :) Am copy-pasting a reply posted to another comment about the price point... =============== We wanted to price it below $300, but were a bit nervous since Indiegogo/Kickstarter take about 10% including the payments system (Amazon/PayPal), so we're pricing it safe. We'll certainly try to provide the best hardware we can at the price we can get it - who knows, maybe we can throw in an i3 processor or 128 GB SSD! Also, we are pricing it below most of System76/ZaReason offerings - I think if you look at Dell/HP offerings at the same price range, they provide similar specs. But if we get the volume we need, we should be able to get much better hardware.
  - DocG 13y ago
    Thanks for the reply! i3 processor or 128 GB SSD it would be worth it probably! But still, for me it wouldn't be low cost. But in the other hand, I do not live in US. And I confess, I am not familiar with how popular is System76 and similar machines. Although, I will say. For 200 euros I get Atom netbook from my local shop, with 50-100 dollar investment I can update to meet your current specs(ram+ssd). So Only difference I see, is that you have ubuntu preloaded. But you do not have screen included. I think it would be good offer if I would get full deal within 349. Screen, where the PC is built in, keyboard and mouse. It should be hassle free for any grandmom for her internet machine. Nevertheless, I wish you good luck. You have become further than most of us, making real difference. I can only talk, you really did something :)
    - hubtree 13y ago
      I like what you are trying to do here. Pre-installed ubuntu isn't much of a value add for me, but I could see how it could be for some. I wish the video focused more on the box itself, it looks really nice, but there isn't a lot of time to see it. I would love to see a device that caters a little more to the mainstream that runs linux out of the box. I wish your team the best of luck.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- shanpc 13y ago
  Oops! Thanks for catching that, will fix! EDIT: This was NOT done on purpose, I assure you. ;)
Aaronn 13y ago
Why does the video say "If you get funded on Kickstarter" this is indiegogo... am I missing something?
- shanpc 13y ago
  Sorry, we made one video for both and forgot that detail. :-/ (We opted for Indiegogo in the end.) Will try to get that updated.
edtechdev 13y ago
I admire the effort I can't help mentioning though that the buildapc sub-reddit has had some threads on PCs for under 350: http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1khff2/we_need_to_go_cheaper_315_gaming_pc_sansos_that/ http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1khff2/we_need_to_... But it would be nicer for more novice folks to be able to buy one pre-built.
- networked 13y ago
  There's also http://logicalincrements.com/ http://logicalincrements.com/.
zdw 13y ago
This isn't hard to do. A barebones, back of the monitor net top runs around $150 or so appears to be exactly what they're using: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119072 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119... Then throw in a small HDD or SSD, a monitor, RAM, keyboard, mouse, and you're still at or below the $350 mark. These computers will get even better as the low-end battle between Intel and AMD heats up, and ARM alternatives appear. I set up a bunch of systems like this that PXE boot into Debian off an older server last week. They run great, are nearly silent, and take up less space than the aging G3 iMacs they replaced.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  This was what I was thinking, its like "uh, yeah how many would you like to buy?" If you buy more than 100 I'll sell them to you for $300.
- aray 13y ago
  I'm just comparing it to my $250 chromebook that I installed Ubuntu on. It's additionally portable and battery powered. Edit: the specs are actually almost identical to the $329 chromebox http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bkws&utm_medium=ha http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html#... 4GB RAM, SSD, WiFi, Bluetooth.
  - pkulak 13y ago
    There's even the Chromebox, which I think is less than $350.
  - frank_boyd 13y ago
    On the other hand, as I read the specs... > 100 GB Google Drive Cloud Storage with 16GB Solid State Drive ...I see Google's strategy is to own your data. Do you really trust them now that you know they work with the NSA?
- shanpc 13y ago
  Yes. :) The prototype shown in the video is indeed built off a barebones device similar to the one you link to (not the exact same model). So it is indeed not hard at all - most HN readers will be able to assemble a device similar to our campaign themselves. But I want to clarify we are not running this to as a money-making campaign! We are doing this for two primary reasons: 1. Ignite pre-installed Ubuntu/Linux among PC makers by showing there is demand for it. 2. Try to put out a device at a lower price point than most Ubuntu vendors today and be price-competitive with the low-end models for Windows makers.
alanctgardner2 13y ago
I don't really see this being the domain of Kickstarter: ASUS already makes a very cheap 'nettop' box, for example[1]. Commodity Linux boxes are hard: 1) they're small volume, so there's always a premium 2) at the low end there are very few people who even see the benefit of Linux. It's got to be a gift from a geek, basically 3) if you don't get tripped up by (2), you're probably capable enough to buy an EEE box and install Linux yourself I wish you guys the best, but I don't see this getting funded :( 1. http://www.asus.com/Eee_Box_PCs/ http://www.asus.com/Eee_Box_PCs/
vacri 13y ago
Give better specs. My first thought was that it only had a VGA connector, which was outdated fifteen years ago and is bad. Zooming in on the picture, I think I can make out an HDMI connector. I would try to get a DVI connector on the box as well - this is the level where the cheap monitors get their digital input. VGA should be thought of as an emergency, not a standard, due to it's analogue crapness.
vonseel 13y ago
I think the below sentence is missing an adjective (e.g. "most affordable"). The Shan PC is meant to be THE affordable, small and portable desktop with Ubuntu pre-installed that you would ever want or use.
icn2 13y ago
I love linux and this idea. Could you record video in a better environment?
bluedino 13y ago
We had $299 Windows computers from eMachines over 10 years ago. About that same time, Wal-mart sold a $199 Lindows machine.
benjamincburns 13y ago
This is a really tough market. Most people who want to run Ubuntu are still quite tech savvy at the moment (though it is shifting), meaning they're willing to build their own machine. Those who are cost conscious and tech savvy will ultimately have more motivation to build their own machine, since they'll be able to "tweak the knobs" to choose their own trade-offs. Complete wild ass guess, but you might have better luck selling a top-of-the-line Ubuntu machine on well-tested hardware. That last part, the well-tested bit, that's a really attractive value-add. In the prior scenario you're asking me to give you control. In the latter, you're saving me risk and a big hassle.
- neltnerb 13y ago
  Yeah, I think this is about right. Your target demographic is the intersection of: - People who like Ubuntu. - People who can't install it themselves. I think this intersection is pretty small at the moment... trying to simultaneously create a significant market and also create the product is going to be super hard. Sorry... I've been looking for a cheap replacement for my current Ubuntu desktop, but this is not very attractive at that price point. It either needs to be much nicer, or much cheaper and I don't see that happening without backing from a big company like Google.
  - xur17 13y ago
    Last time I upgraded my desktop, I ended up building it myself, not for cost savings, but so I could pick out components that worked well with Linux. A prebuilt machine like @benjamincburns mentioned that has been well-tested would be an interesting idea, especially if it was closer to middle of the road spec wise.
    - shanpc 13y ago
      Absolutely. If Google Linux (based on Debian or Ubuntu) had come out by this time, I'm confident there would have been no need for us to do this. :p Also agreed about the target market: you're right in that the crowd wanting low-cost Ubuntu machines are likely to build it themselves. As for a high-end Ubuntu machine: well, we don't think there is a need for us to do this. System76 and other vendors already do a good job with the high-end Ubuntu market.
pascalo 13y ago
I'm using an intel NUC i3 at the moment, which worked with 13.04 out of the box, takes 16gb ram and drives a 2560x1440 screen via thunderbolt. Sure, not as cheap, but the specs are more serious and the form factor similar.
muyuu 13y ago
I don't quite see the point of having a desktop PC so underpowered. Unless you aim to be the cheapest of the cheap... but this isn't anywhere close to that cheap. Pre-installed Linux is a promising niche, but I think not too many people would benefit of this particular model at this price.
will_work4tears 13y ago
While I can build a 250 dollar system with better specs with a few google alerts and RSS feeds setup (good deals), and can easily get a much better system sans the monitor on newegg, I realize I'm not the target market and applaud the effort at least.
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
This... isn't some startup project, it's abusing indiegogo / a 'startup' campaign to get in pre-orders to fund the project. It also lacks being remarkable. Also nobody's giving them money for that, it seems. Not remarkable, seeing as how anyone can get an Ubuntu desktop with comparable specs for $350 or less already.
elnate 13y ago
Their pricing model just seems to be regular retail plus donations.
hardwaresofton 13y ago
So other than the price being wrong (whatever your price is, it should beat the Intel NUC), I think that you need to add more pricing options for the campaign. $5, or $350 is way too big of a jump. I mean, you could offer a $20 level for a mention in the installer/release, as a supporter, at the very least? To be honest, I might approach Intel (at least send an email) about licensing the NUC and maybe getting at least a cheaper price on it, and using it as the base of your platform (if you're looking for something cheap & x86, with a little bit of power. Disclaimer - I work for Intel, but I do not speak on behalf of Intel the corporation or of any of it's employees, rather I give this comment on my own behalf.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Something like a t-shirt and a donation to the EFF, EPIC, or something? Stickers maybe?
  - shanpc 13y ago
    Excellent idea! With a T-shirt, we couldn't use the Ubuntu/Canonical logo, but maybe we can do a T-shirt with a message that says "Support pre-installed Ubuntu/Linux!" or something similar on it. Let me talk to our designer friend and see if we can put something together fairly quickly. The donation to EFF, etc sounds like a good idea too! We'll discuss this and try to have some additional perks in there by early next week.
- shanpc 13y ago
  Thanks for the suggestions! Wow, it would be great if you could talk to Intel about licensing the NUC at a lower price, we could indeed use it (and the additional better hardware) and it would likely be better than what we've spec'd out for the same price point. Note that it may not be quite right to compare the price with the barebones NUC though - we do include 4 GB RAM, an SSD hard drive (we're hoping for at least 64 GB, if not more) and do some manual work in pre-installing Ubuntu on this (no Windows tax!) so you have a fully-working system out of the box. With the NUC, you would have to buy the components yourself and install Linux, which would likely come to the same price point (again, we realize most HN readers can do this with their eyes closed.) EDIT: as for the $20 "supporter mention during the installer" suggestion - we want to install stock Ubuntu, so this might be hard. We can probably put up a perk that involves having the contributor's names on our website, etc.
billybob255 13y ago
So it's a barebones PC running Ubuntu. Sorry but I'm going to join the "big deal" crowd. What I'd gladly pay money for is a cheap Chromebook knockoff that runs linux natively without messing around with developer mode or whatever.
shanpc 13y ago
Our apologies for not being able to respond or answer since 7 PM EDT on this thread. We’ve been getting this message: “You’re submitting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks.” whenever we try to submit anything on Hacker News. We will keep trying to reply to any comments on Hacker News as soon as possible. If this becomes hard to do, hopefully we can answer the questions as updates/comments on the Indiegogo campaign itself.
reirob 13y ago
I do NOT need a desktop, but I would immediately support a startup building a good Linux developers laptop with crucial criteria being: * Excellent keyboard for fast typist and programmers, must be better than the Thinkpad keyboards * Ability to chose the keyboard layout, i.e. being able to chose US International or whatever you like (Lenovo allows to chose US international independent from the country where you deliver to, this is one of the reasons why I use them) * Having a great Trackpoint, at least as good as the one from Thinkpads * Having a 3:4 screen ratio and great screen specs, colors, brightness, resolution, should be available from 12" to 15.6" * Needless to say that Hard-Ware components MUST be fully supported by Linux * Build quality must be rock-solid * The option to order it withOUT paying for Windows * Must be as light as possible with the given specs and material (e.g. I do NOT need a CD/DVD drive) * Must provide an options to pay for at least 3 year worldwide warranty including coverage for accidental damage I guess HN fellows will have some more criteria to add. But for me those are the most important. I am ready to pay a premium for this.
- jclos 13y ago
  Out of curiosity, what do you think of the Dell XPS13 Developer Edition, which seems to fill not all, but a lot of your conditions?
  - reirob 13y ago
    Thanks for pointing out. It is good to have the option with Linux. But except of this detail this laptop does not fit any of my requirements: * It has no trackpoint - the biggest deal breaker. But even if it would have one (I used Dell Latitudes in the past) it should be at least as good as the Thinkpad Trackpoints. * I cannot judge about the keyboard experience on this Dell because I did not try it out, but I looked up and I could not order it in Europe with a US Keyboard Layout + € sign. As well I think the media would have picked it up if it had an excellent keyboard experience. * The screen ratio is not 4:3 - I know nobody has 4:3 anymore, but I consider exactly this to be an industrial fail. I could go on, but these 3 points are the most important to me. Currently I have a Thinkpad X220 Tablet, that I can use as well in Tablet mode with integrated stylus - it cost me more than twice the price of the Dell you pointed me out, but this is not the problem. I am almost happy with this device. The main nitpick is that some of the plastic quality is not good enough - it broke twice already and I have plastic bits that are broken right now (luckily I have the warranty). I would prefer a bigger screen, 12.5" is too small for spending the whole day on it. And as well the screen ratio is stupid for developer or people working on text. And I had to pay for Windows.
megantic 13y ago
After failing to fund an ubuntu phone, now they're trying their luck again with a not so cheap, not so good hardware (who wants an intel atom instead of arm?). I use linux but I have come to really dislike ubuntu over time, so this is pointless to me, but I wish them luck.
bobdvb 13y ago
I have an Acer Revo that has served me very well for many years, I recently put an SSD in it and gave it a new lease of life. Not sure how innovative this is.

66 points by samspenc 13y ago

nate_martin 13y ago

This is kind of underwhelming given that we already have the Raspberry Pi.

shanpc 13y ago
Thanks for the feedback! Our motivation for this project was to accelerate the growth of PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed on them, particularly at a low price point. We looked at the Raspberry Pi, but it provides too little CPU horsepower for most basic computing chores - its hard to run a decent GUI or browse the web on it. Not knocking the Pi one bit here (!), but we think a desktop computer would need a bit more firepower than the Pi. Also, being a crowdfunded project, we're able to provide this at a price-point that System76, ZaReason and other pre-installed Linux providers aren't able to provide right now (they're great companies too, so do support them if you like Linux pre-installed on your desktops/laptops!)
georgemcbay 13y ago
I love the 3 Raspberry Pis I have, but this thing would eat them for breakfast for general computing tasks where size and power consumption aren't huge issues. Having said that, Acer, ASUS, Lenovo and others make "nettop" devices that are very similar to this one. Generally theirs are cheaper but with 2GB RAM standard and no SSD... for about the same price as this one you could get one of those others plus the extra RAM and a (small) SSD today at the advertised price... just with slightly more work in upgrading the RAM, swapping out the drive and installing Ubuntu yourself. The extra work seems like a small price to pay though for getting a system right now instead of putting down money and getting a system in 2014. That sort of long lag time to delivery without any sort of associated price break is what killed the Ubuntu Edge phone for me, and I can't see myself investing in this thing either (sorry @shanpc).
- orclev 13y ago
  That was pretty much my reaction as well. I built a small system similar to this for my grandmother a couple years ago. If I recall I paid about $150 for the base system, and another ~$150 for an SSD for it for a grand total of $300 plus a little extra for a keyboard/mouse and a USB DVD drive. Initially installed Ubuntu on it, but later swapped it out for Mint on account of Unity just getting way too weird. Basically you could do this yourself for right around the exact same price point if not a bit cheaper with the minor inconvenience of installing the OS yourself.
- shawn-furyan 13y ago
  In my experience, Ubuntu doesn't run well on Atom. Perceived performance is far inferior to, say a $260 Nexus 7. Even if I knew someone who wanted a low-end desktop, I would not recommend they support this project because of the enormous performance disparity between the two possible processor families (Atom vs. Celeron). If the project were to come to fruition, and you ended up with an Atom, it would be enormously disappointing. And let's face it, these days, if you're not willing to put together a desktop (which you can trivially do at this price point assuming you're willing to make the same price/performance tradeoffs), you're probably not in the market for a desktop, but rather a laptop or a tablet. That's just where the market is at these days.

drivebyacct2 13y ago

Holy god that's twice as expensive as it should be. Easily. edit: Oh, it's the Atom. Why? You're in Linux land, get rid of that x86 garbage for that sort of form factor. When you can buy $75 HDMI dongles that run Ubuntu and have 2GB of memory...

shanpc 13y ago

Thanks for posting this on Hacker News! :) This is our first crowdfunding project, and we're super excited to be putting together a low-cost desktop system with Ubuntu pre-installed! Feel free to ask us questions here or on the Indiegogo page, as well as providing any feedback. We'll try our best to answer questions - even over the weekend if possible. ;)

codelust 13y ago
I had recently given up 4-years of living with OS X to get back to Linux - elementaryOS, to be precise. This is a product that has been long due, but for some reason never gets built. 5-6 years ago, driver support etc was the main reason, but it is no longer the case. If this has to work, it has to work exceedingly well for all the possible use cases out-of-the-box. If it can't do what it is meant to do at the first go, make sure you put up simple and clear instructions as to how to go about it. The moment you hit the legendary "show me your lspci output" point you would have lost the game, no matter how good the specs are. That said, a week of fiddling and my dev platform is the same as the one that I had on OS X. So, it is not like it can't be done. Good luck :)

devanti 13y ago

pretty expensive given the specs..

shanpc 13y ago
We wanted to price it below $300, but were a bit nervous since Indiegogo/Kickstarter take about 10% including the payments system (Amazon/PayPal), so we're pricing it safe. We'll certainly try to provide the best hardware we can at the price we can get it - who knows, maybe we can throw in an i3 processor or 128 GB SSD! Also, we are pricing it below most of System76/ZaReason offerings - I think if you look at Dell/HP offerings at the same price range, they provide similar specs. But if we get the volume we need, we should be able to get much better hardware.
- eropple 13y ago
  Exactly how much research have you done to buttress that "should"?

oscilloscope 13y ago

You need to put a bit more care into filming to build confidence in the offering. YouTube's auto-stabilization at 1:30 really puts me off. Especially since you're featuring HD video. The screen is washed out and blue-shifted at that point as well. A few high-quality pictures of the PC in good light would help too. The video features the monitor more than the PC itself.

shanpc 13y ago
Good point, will see if we can do better with the video.

ch4ch4 13y ago

I don't see any value add... are you just reselling SFF PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled? What makes this Kickstarter special?

shanpc 13y ago
We're pricing it at below what most of what System76's base models come at. We were unable to find any systems with Ubuntu pre-installed at this price point, which is what motivated us to do this.
- davis_m 13y ago
  It is priced well below what System76 offers, but the specs aren't in any way compareable. The cheapest System76 desktop comes with an i5 minimum. Your machine is offering a celeron/atom. You are comparing apples to oranges.
  - shanpc 13y ago
    Definitely, agreed on that point. But we think there is a market for those low-cost devices with Ubuntu pre-installed that System76 is not catering for, and that's why we're trying to do this. But agreed on the apples to oranges comparison, thanks for pointing that out. We're totally not knocking System76 here, we think those guys are doing a great job! Apologies if we seemed to imply that in our replies.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Suggestion: http://www.alibaba.com/products/F0/i3_cpu_ssd/CID701.html http://www.alibaba.com/products/F0/i3_cpu_ssd/CID701.html Don't see something you like send three of the manufacturers your spec. $200 - $250 all up with 4G memory and 128GB SSD. Drop shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed no problem, you buy now? Seriously there are a bunch of these guys who have family members in the Bay Area at least trying to sell me machines for the office. I like to give them a challenge like "mini-itx form factor and 16GB of ECC memory under $300" drives 'em nuts.

DocG 13y ago

I think I am missing something. 349 is pretty big price tag, I don't think it is low-cost. I had a lot of examples and reasons lined up in here, but I think I am missing something. But what? EDIT: I think I am missing the part where you are making it black and white clear what makes your system different and why is it good deal for that kind of money. At the moment, I can see it why it would be worth the money. Good luck anyway:)

shanpc 13y ago
Thanks! :) Am copy-pasting a reply posted to another comment about the price point... =============== We wanted to price it below $300, but were a bit nervous since Indiegogo/Kickstarter take about 10% including the payments system (Amazon/PayPal), so we're pricing it safe. We'll certainly try to provide the best hardware we can at the price we can get it - who knows, maybe we can throw in an i3 processor or 128 GB SSD! Also, we are pricing it below most of System76/ZaReason offerings - I think if you look at Dell/HP offerings at the same price range, they provide similar specs. But if we get the volume we need, we should be able to get much better hardware.
- DocG 13y ago
  Thanks for the reply! i3 processor or 128 GB SSD it would be worth it probably! But still, for me it wouldn't be low cost. But in the other hand, I do not live in US. And I confess, I am not familiar with how popular is System76 and similar machines. Although, I will say. For 200 euros I get Atom netbook from my local shop, with 50-100 dollar investment I can update to meet your current specs(ram+ssd). So Only difference I see, is that you have ubuntu preloaded. But you do not have screen included. I think it would be good offer if I would get full deal within 349. Screen, where the PC is built in, keyboard and mouse. It should be hassle free for any grandmom for her internet machine. Nevertheless, I wish you good luck. You have become further than most of us, making real difference. I can only talk, you really did something :)
  - hubtree 13y ago
    I like what you are trying to do here. Pre-installed ubuntu isn't much of a value add for me, but I could see how it could be for some. I wish the video focused more on the box itself, it looks really nice, but there isn't a lot of time to see it. I would love to see a device that caters a little more to the mainstream that runs linux out of the box. I wish your team the best of luck.

deleted 13y ago

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shanpc 13y ago
Oops! Thanks for catching that, will fix! EDIT: This was NOT done on purpose, I assure you. ;)

Aaronn 13y ago

Why does the video say "If you get funded on Kickstarter" this is indiegogo... am I missing something?

shanpc 13y ago
Sorry, we made one video for both and forgot that detail. :-/ (We opted for Indiegogo in the end.) Will try to get that updated.

edtechdev 13y ago

I admire the effort I can't help mentioning though that the buildapc sub-reddit has had some threads on PCs for under 350: http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1khff2/we_need_to_go_cheaper_315_gaming_pc_sansos_that/ http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1khff2/we_need_to_... But it would be nicer for more novice folks to be able to buy one pre-built.

networked 13y ago
There's also http://logicalincrements.com/ http://logicalincrements.com/.

zdw 13y ago

This isn't hard to do. A barebones, back of the monitor net top runs around $150 or so appears to be exactly what they're using: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119072 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119... Then throw in a small HDD or SSD, a monitor, RAM, keyboard, mouse, and you're still at or below the $350 mark. These computers will get even better as the low-end battle between Intel and AMD heats up, and ARM alternatives appear. I set up a bunch of systems like this that PXE boot into Debian off an older server last week. They run great, are nearly silent, and take up less space than the aging G3 iMacs they replaced.

ChuckMcM 13y ago
This was what I was thinking, its like "uh, yeah how many would you like to buy?" If you buy more than 100 I'll sell them to you for $300.
aray 13y ago
I'm just comparing it to my $250 chromebook that I installed Ubuntu on. It's additionally portable and battery powered. Edit: the specs are actually almost identical to the $329 chromebox http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bkws&utm_medium=ha http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html#... 4GB RAM, SSD, WiFi, Bluetooth.
- pkulak 13y ago
  There's even the Chromebox, which I think is less than $350.
- frank_boyd 13y ago
  On the other hand, as I read the specs... > 100 GB Google Drive Cloud Storage with 16GB Solid State Drive ...I see Google's strategy is to own your data. Do you really trust them now that you know they work with the NSA?
shanpc 13y ago
Yes. :) The prototype shown in the video is indeed built off a barebones device similar to the one you link to (not the exact same model). So it is indeed not hard at all - most HN readers will be able to assemble a device similar to our campaign themselves. But I want to clarify we are not running this to as a money-making campaign! We are doing this for two primary reasons: 1. Ignite pre-installed Ubuntu/Linux among PC makers by showing there is demand for it. 2. Try to put out a device at a lower price point than most Ubuntu vendors today and be price-competitive with the low-end models for Windows makers.

alanctgardner2 13y ago

I don't really see this being the domain of Kickstarter: ASUS already makes a very cheap 'nettop' box, for example[1]. Commodity Linux boxes are hard: 1) they're small volume, so there's always a premium 2) at the low end there are very few people who even see the benefit of Linux. It's got to be a gift from a geek, basically 3) if you don't get tripped up by (2), you're probably capable enough to buy an EEE box and install Linux yourself I wish you guys the best, but I don't see this getting funded :( 1. http://www.asus.com/Eee_Box_PCs/ http://www.asus.com/Eee_Box_PCs/

vacri 13y ago

Give better specs. My first thought was that it only had a VGA connector, which was outdated fifteen years ago and is bad. Zooming in on the picture, I think I can make out an HDMI connector. I would try to get a DVI connector on the box as well - this is the level where the cheap monitors get their digital input. VGA should be thought of as an emergency, not a standard, due to it's analogue crapness.

vonseel 13y ago

I think the below sentence is missing an adjective (e.g. "most affordable"). The Shan PC is meant to be THE affordable, small and portable desktop with Ubuntu pre-installed that you would ever want or use.

icn2 13y ago

I love linux and this idea. Could you record video in a better environment?

bluedino 13y ago

We had $299 Windows computers from eMachines over 10 years ago. About that same time, Wal-mart sold a $199 Lindows machine.

benjamincburns 13y ago

This is a really tough market. Most people who want to run Ubuntu are still quite tech savvy at the moment (though it is shifting), meaning they're willing to build their own machine. Those who are cost conscious and tech savvy will ultimately have more motivation to build their own machine, since they'll be able to "tweak the knobs" to choose their own trade-offs. Complete wild ass guess, but you might have better luck selling a top-of-the-line Ubuntu machine on well-tested hardware. That last part, the well-tested bit, that's a really attractive value-add. In the prior scenario you're asking me to give you control. In the latter, you're saving me risk and a big hassle.

neltnerb 13y ago
Yeah, I think this is about right. Your target demographic is the intersection of: - People who like Ubuntu. - People who can't install it themselves. I think this intersection is pretty small at the moment... trying to simultaneously create a significant market and also create the product is going to be super hard. Sorry... I've been looking for a cheap replacement for my current Ubuntu desktop, but this is not very attractive at that price point. It either needs to be much nicer, or much cheaper and I don't see that happening without backing from a big company like Google.
- xur17 13y ago
  Last time I upgraded my desktop, I ended up building it myself, not for cost savings, but so I could pick out components that worked well with Linux. A prebuilt machine like @benjamincburns mentioned that has been well-tested would be an interesting idea, especially if it was closer to middle of the road spec wise.
  - shanpc 13y ago
    Absolutely. If Google Linux (based on Debian or Ubuntu) had come out by this time, I'm confident there would have been no need for us to do this. :p Also agreed about the target market: you're right in that the crowd wanting low-cost Ubuntu machines are likely to build it themselves. As for a high-end Ubuntu machine: well, we don't think there is a need for us to do this. System76 and other vendors already do a good job with the high-end Ubuntu market.

pascalo 13y ago

I'm using an intel NUC i3 at the moment, which worked with 13.04 out of the box, takes 16gb ram and drives a 2560x1440 screen via thunderbolt. Sure, not as cheap, but the specs are more serious and the form factor similar.

muyuu 13y ago

I don't quite see the point of having a desktop PC so underpowered. Unless you aim to be the cheapest of the cheap... but this isn't anywhere close to that cheap. Pre-installed Linux is a promising niche, but I think not too many people would benefit of this particular model at this price.

will_work4tears 13y ago

While I can build a 250 dollar system with better specs with a few google alerts and RSS feeds setup (good deals), and can easily get a much better system sans the monitor on newegg, I realize I'm not the target market and applaud the effort at least.

Cthulhu_ 13y ago

This... isn't some startup project, it's abusing indiegogo / a 'startup' campaign to get in pre-orders to fund the project. It also lacks being remarkable. Also nobody's giving them money for that, it seems. Not remarkable, seeing as how anyone can get an Ubuntu desktop with comparable specs for $350 or less already.

elnate 13y ago

Their pricing model just seems to be regular retail plus donations.

hardwaresofton 13y ago

So other than the price being wrong (whatever your price is, it should beat the Intel NUC), I think that you need to add more pricing options for the campaign. $5, or $350 is way too big of a jump. I mean, you could offer a $20 level for a mention in the installer/release, as a supporter, at the very least? To be honest, I might approach Intel (at least send an email) about licensing the NUC and maybe getting at least a cheaper price on it, and using it as the base of your platform (if you're looking for something cheap & x86, with a little bit of power. Disclaimer - I work for Intel, but I do not speak on behalf of Intel the corporation or of any of it's employees, rather I give this comment on my own behalf.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Something like a t-shirt and a donation to the EFF, EPIC, or something? Stickers maybe?
- shanpc 13y ago
  Excellent idea! With a T-shirt, we couldn't use the Ubuntu/Canonical logo, but maybe we can do a T-shirt with a message that says "Support pre-installed Ubuntu/Linux!" or something similar on it. Let me talk to our designer friend and see if we can put something together fairly quickly. The donation to EFF, etc sounds like a good idea too! We'll discuss this and try to have some additional perks in there by early next week.
shanpc 13y ago
Thanks for the suggestions! Wow, it would be great if you could talk to Intel about licensing the NUC at a lower price, we could indeed use it (and the additional better hardware) and it would likely be better than what we've spec'd out for the same price point. Note that it may not be quite right to compare the price with the barebones NUC though - we do include 4 GB RAM, an SSD hard drive (we're hoping for at least 64 GB, if not more) and do some manual work in pre-installing Ubuntu on this (no Windows tax!) so you have a fully-working system out of the box. With the NUC, you would have to buy the components yourself and install Linux, which would likely come to the same price point (again, we realize most HN readers can do this with their eyes closed.) EDIT: as for the $20 "supporter mention during the installer" suggestion - we want to install stock Ubuntu, so this might be hard. We can probably put up a perk that involves having the contributor's names on our website, etc.

billybob255 13y ago

So it's a barebones PC running Ubuntu. Sorry but I'm going to join the "big deal" crowd. What I'd gladly pay money for is a cheap Chromebook knockoff that runs linux natively without messing around with developer mode or whatever.

shanpc 13y ago

Our apologies for not being able to respond or answer since 7 PM EDT on this thread. We’ve been getting this message: “You’re submitting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks.” whenever we try to submit anything on Hacker News. We will keep trying to reply to any comments on Hacker News as soon as possible. If this becomes hard to do, hopefully we can answer the questions as updates/comments on the Indiegogo campaign itself.

reirob 13y ago

I do NOT need a desktop, but I would immediately support a startup building a good Linux developers laptop with crucial criteria being: * Excellent keyboard for fast typist and programmers, must be better than the Thinkpad keyboards * Ability to chose the keyboard layout, i.e. being able to chose US International or whatever you like (Lenovo allows to chose US international independent from the country where you deliver to, this is one of the reasons why I use them) * Having a great Trackpoint, at least as good as the one from Thinkpads * Having a 3:4 screen ratio and great screen specs, colors, brightness, resolution, should be available from 12" to 15.6" * Needless to say that Hard-Ware components MUST be fully supported by Linux * Build quality must be rock-solid * The option to order it withOUT paying for Windows * Must be as light as possible with the given specs and material (e.g. I do NOT need a CD/DVD drive) * Must provide an options to pay for at least 3 year worldwide warranty including coverage for accidental damage I guess HN fellows will have some more criteria to add. But for me those are the most important. I am ready to pay a premium for this.

jclos 13y ago
Out of curiosity, what do you think of the Dell XPS13 Developer Edition, which seems to fill not all, but a lot of your conditions?
- reirob 13y ago
  Thanks for pointing out. It is good to have the option with Linux. But except of this detail this laptop does not fit any of my requirements: * It has no trackpoint - the biggest deal breaker. But even if it would have one (I used Dell Latitudes in the past) it should be at least as good as the Thinkpad Trackpoints. * I cannot judge about the keyboard experience on this Dell because I did not try it out, but I looked up and I could not order it in Europe with a US Keyboard Layout + € sign. As well I think the media would have picked it up if it had an excellent keyboard experience. * The screen ratio is not 4:3 - I know nobody has 4:3 anymore, but I consider exactly this to be an industrial fail. I could go on, but these 3 points are the most important to me. Currently I have a Thinkpad X220 Tablet, that I can use as well in Tablet mode with integrated stylus - it cost me more than twice the price of the Dell you pointed me out, but this is not the problem. I am almost happy with this device. The main nitpick is that some of the plastic quality is not good enough - it broke twice already and I have plastic bits that are broken right now (luckily I have the warranty). I would prefer a bigger screen, 12.5" is too small for spending the whole day on it. And as well the screen ratio is stupid for developer or people working on text. And I had to pay for Windows.

megantic 13y ago

After failing to fund an ubuntu phone, now they're trying their luck again with a not so cheap, not so good hardware (who wants an intel atom instead of arm?). I use linux but I have come to really dislike ubuntu over time, so this is pointless to me, but I wish them luck.

bobdvb 13y ago

I have an Acer Revo that has served me very well for many years, I recently put an SSD in it and gave it a new lease of life. Not sure how innovative this is.