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The Tesla should be very exciting in European countries that have very high taxes on gasoline. It makes an £80,000 a lot more affordable. A full charge takes an

by etler 13y ago

The Tesla should be very exciting in European countries that have very high taxes on gasoline. It makes an £80,000 a lot more affordable. A full charge takes an hour, and a full tank of gas will cost about £120 according to the video. Unless you value your time more than that, the charge time shouldn't be much of a negative. Especially considering that it's only a problem if you're on a long journey (and a trip from London to Glasgow is only 400 miles), and you can schedule it with lunch anyways (and get a really nice one with the £115.50 you just saved!) It should be a no brainer for anyone in the market for a ~£50,000 car considering the savings. It will be very interesting to follow the coming sales numbers of the Tesla in the European market compared to the US, as the gas savings will be considerably higher.

gnoway 13y ago
For now. As soon as electric vehicles become popular enough to reduce gas tax receipts, a new tax will appear to make up for the difference. It's already happening in the US: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311986/states-targeting-hybrids-as-gas-tax-revenues-ebb http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311986/states-targeting-hyb...
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  Well, yeah, the primary purpose of gas taxes is actually to be a simple-to-collect use fee for public roads (sure, the match between "use of public roads" and "consumption of gas" is far from perfect, but it is -- and even moreso was at the time that gas taxes were first implemented -- a lot simpler than putting mile-by-mile toll stations on all public roads.) So, to the extent that "impact on public roads" becomes more divorced from "consumption of gasoline", gas taxes get worse at performing their primary purpose (they still serve the secondary purpose of internalizing social costs associated with burning gasoline, but that's not their main purpose.)
to3m 13y ago
Let's say you drive 8,000 miles per year and your car gets 20mpg. (All non-metric units mentioned are Imperial: 1 mile = 1,609m, 1 gallon = 4.55L, 1 year = 31,536,000 seconds.) So for 1 year that's 1,514L. And 1L of super unleaded = £1.43, so you're spending £2,165.02 per year on petrol. You can make your own figures up for insurance and what have you - let's call it £5,000 per year, averaged out. Assuming the Tesla is £80,000, you don't break even until year 6, assuming the Tesla's running costs are £0/year. If you do drive a lot you'd probably buy some kind of diesel car, so then you could expect more like 30mpg, perhaps, assuming you're going for the equivalent of this 20mpg thing. And the break-even part recedes further into the future, or you can just drive more. (I've no real feel for what sort of car you'd get for £50,000 though. At a guess: BMW 530d, Jaguar XF, Range Rover TDV6...? Something like that. Are those really the Tesla Model S's natural competitors?)
- speeq 13y ago
  Elon Musk said that Tesla is intent on delivering an all-electric sedan that’s sized around a BMW 3 Series, has a range of 200 miles, and costs $35,000 - not including any EV incentives - in about 3-4 years. A smaller, high-volume version of the Model S at about half the price.
  - to3m 13y ago
    Sounds good, and I will redo my calculations when they deliver it.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  8,000 miles per year is about half the average annual miles per year driven by people ages 20-54, at least in the US: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

by etler 13y ago

gnoway 13y ago

For now. As soon as electric vehicles become popular enough to reduce gas tax receipts, a new tax will appear to make up for the difference. It's already happening in the US: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311986/states-targeting-hybrids-as-gas-tax-revenues-ebb http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311986/states-targeting-hyb...

dragonwriter 13y ago
Well, yeah, the primary purpose of gas taxes is actually to be a simple-to-collect use fee for public roads (sure, the match between "use of public roads" and "consumption of gas" is far from perfect, but it is -- and even moreso was at the time that gas taxes were first implemented -- a lot simpler than putting mile-by-mile toll stations on all public roads.) So, to the extent that "impact on public roads" becomes more divorced from "consumption of gasoline", gas taxes get worse at performing their primary purpose (they still serve the secondary purpose of internalizing social costs associated with burning gasoline, but that's not their main purpose.)

to3m 13y ago

Let's say you drive 8,000 miles per year and your car gets 20mpg. (All non-metric units mentioned are Imperial: 1 mile = 1,609m, 1 gallon = 4.55L, 1 year = 31,536,000 seconds.) So for 1 year that's 1,514L. And 1L of super unleaded = £1.43, so you're spending £2,165.02 per year on petrol. You can make your own figures up for insurance and what have you - let's call it £5,000 per year, averaged out. Assuming the Tesla is £80,000, you don't break even until year 6, assuming the Tesla's running costs are £0/year. If you do drive a lot you'd probably buy some kind of diesel car, so then you could expect more like 30mpg, perhaps, assuming you're going for the equivalent of this 20mpg thing. And the break-even part recedes further into the future, or you can just drive more. (I've no real feel for what sort of car you'd get for £50,000 though. At a guess: BMW 530d, Jaguar XF, Range Rover TDV6...? Something like that. Are those really the Tesla Model S's natural competitors?)

speeq 13y ago
Elon Musk said that Tesla is intent on delivering an all-electric sedan that’s sized around a BMW 3 Series, has a range of 200 miles, and costs $35,000 - not including any EV incentives - in about 3-4 years. A smaller, high-volume version of the Model S at about half the price.
- to3m 13y ago
  Sounds good, and I will redo my calculations when they deliver it.
nbouscal 13y ago
8,000 miles per year is about half the average annual miles per year driven by people ages 20-54, at least in the US: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm