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Stopped reading at: "[Apple is] selling products that are little if any better than competitors, at premium prices. How can it do that?" This is such a ridicul

by aculver 13y ago

Stopped reading at: "[Apple is] selling products that are little if any better than competitors, at premium prices. How can it do that?" This is such a ridiculous statement. Apple's notebook line is dominating, not because it's "little if any better" than the competitors, but because it's head and shoulders above the competition. They've systematically and iteratively refined, both in software and hardware, all the most important bits of portable computing. Battery life. Display quality. Weight. Size. Noise. Keyboard. Trackpad. Durability.

rsync 13y ago
I am typing this on a 2008 MBA that is now over five years old and looks brand new ... so there's that. BUT, I cannot help but notice that existing macbook airs, five years later, have only very marginally increased their resolution - even as we're 2.25 years into the retina era. ... and over here are a bunch of Lenovo and Samsung netbooks with screen resolutions of 3200 x 1800[1] or so ... So something is definitely slipping a bit. Don't give me blah-blah-battery-life - they should just figure it out. That's why they exist. And they're not. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-companies/10290912/Lenovo-unveils-Yoga-2-Pro-at-IFA-2013.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-companies/1...
- saltyknuckles 13y ago
  A retina screen will probably make it heavier (don't know for sure). The air is meant for portability, battery life, it's more minimal. If you want the retina you can get yourself a macbook pro 13 inch retina for about the same price. Apples goals are different from the other PC makers. Slipping? Hardly, just remember who made high resolution actually matter.
  - comex 13y ago
    It's worth noting that the 3200x1800 laptop in the linked article is 0.01 kg heavier than the 13" MacBook Air. However, it has 3 hours less quoted battery life, and may have sacrificed on quality in other ways.
- comex 13y ago
  Apple kickstarted laptops with high-resolution displays with the 15" Retina MBP less than a year ago; they still have one of the few high-resolution 15" laptops on the market. They also have a 13" version, although it is not as light as the MacBook Air. Most of those 3200x1800 products aren't out yet. Give them time. (However, it is true that that 3200x1800 display is considerably higher resolution than the Retina MBPs. I'm curious where this is going.)
- Nowyouknow 13y ago
  Is a high resolution screen really necessary on a 13" device? I know we want great color reproduction, but that's why I have my 21" external monitor. I've just switched over to the new MBA (first Apple computer ever) and before I did so I did a heck of a lot of research. Originally I wanted a touchscreen laptop with Windows 8 and 1080p, because, shit, here I am contemplating dropping a lot of cash on a new computer, might as well get spec'd out. I tried everything out in stores, I think the only Windows computer I really liked was the Acer S7(?). However, touch screen on my laptop was a no-go (don't see the practicality of it). Just couldn't get comfortable with it. The lack of Haswell and battery life was also a deal breaker after I tried out the MBA13. Sure I compromised on resolution, but I think I won big overall. 12 hours of battery life, Boot Camp (that I haven't even taken advantage of, but it's nice to know I have the option), OSX, and a great trackpad? I'll take that all day, every day. Paired with my external monitor, mouse and keyboard. I think this thing is going to last me a LONG time. i5/8GB/256GB
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    I want gorgeous text and the option for more screen real estate. "150%" scaling (if it worked properly) would be a nice tradeoff. But I'd settle for the specs of a T/W530 on a X-series chassis.
MichaelGG 13y ago
I'd say the design, keyboard and trackpad are rather subjective if you think they're "systematically better". The Retina display currently is better than other offerings, but even the Nexus 10 offers similar DPI. Give me a ThinkPad with a N10 display over a MacBook anyday. Also, there's no real reason Lenovo, Dell, etc. can't start shipping higher quality displays, keyboards, etc. While Apple's products are apparently solidly engineered, most of it is perception and design.
- kposehn 13y ago
  > Also, there's no real reason Lenovo, Dell, etc. can't start shipping higher quality displays, keyboards, etc. While Apple's products are apparently solidly engineered, most of it is perception and design. I disagree with this statement entirely, for one big reason: you're leaving out Apple's mastery of the supply chain. There are certainly component makers out there that will build stuff and slap it together for you, but Apple is the champ of running the whole stack with a relentless eye towards quality control. Think about the design and manufacturing of an iPhone, iPad or MacBook Pro. These are not things that you can compete with easily. There is a massive amount of effort involved in order to build a machine of comparable quality to an Apple device, and that remains one of their key advantages in the market. This is also an advantage they are dead-set on keeping. Most competitors don't have anywhere near the supply chain controls that Apple commands, and often don't even design their own devices (Dell). Finally, quality is a very important component of design. The prettiest laptop in the world is bad design if it falls apart or feels flimsy. Think less about design being the way something looks - instead, add how it feels, sounds, smells even, and every other part of the way you interact with it. That is design.
  - lapa 13y ago
    Funny you mention quality. The Retina MBP has been plugged with issues such as image retention and hanky scrolling. Not something you expect when paying $2,000+ for a laptop. Stop by the MacRumors forum to see all the complaints.
  - lurkinggrue 13y ago
    Wow, Apple is good at their marketing/brand loyalty. Reminds me of the Apple brand loyal friends I had in the late 90s. He would go on about the build quality but had to point a fan at his laptop to keep it from overheating.
couradical 13y ago
Honestly, I wouldn't say that apple's notebook line is dominating. Ultrabooks have caught up, and most people who have a macbook aren't pressed to refurb it like with an iOS device. Apple's market share has held steady around 8-10% over the past 5 or so years, and isn't projected to change very much. For an example see [1]. I don't disagree that Apple hardware is a bit better in some places, but is that worth the $3-700 premium over a similarly specced Lenovo, Dell, or HP? Not to me. I'd say that it's hyperbole, but has an underlying valid point. [1]. http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2544115 http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2544115
omonra 13y ago
Apple is really a phone/tablet making company (as far as revenue & profits matter). Their laptops are really a rounding error now.

by aculver 13y ago

rsync 13y ago

I am typing this on a 2008 MBA that is now over five years old and looks brand new ... so there's that. BUT, I cannot help but notice that existing macbook airs, five years later, have only very marginally increased their resolution - even as we're 2.25 years into the retina era. ... and over here are a bunch of Lenovo and Samsung netbooks with screen resolutions of 3200 x 1800[1] or so ... So something is definitely slipping a bit. Don't give me blah-blah-battery-life - they should just figure it out. That's why they exist. And they're not. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-companies/10290912/Lenovo-unveils-Yoga-2-Pro-at-IFA-2013.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-companies/1...

saltyknuckles 13y ago
A retina screen will probably make it heavier (don't know for sure). The air is meant for portability, battery life, it's more minimal. If you want the retina you can get yourself a macbook pro 13 inch retina for about the same price. Apples goals are different from the other PC makers. Slipping? Hardly, just remember who made high resolution actually matter.
- comex 13y ago
  It's worth noting that the 3200x1800 laptop in the linked article is 0.01 kg heavier than the 13" MacBook Air. However, it has 3 hours less quoted battery life, and may have sacrificed on quality in other ways.
comex 13y ago
Apple kickstarted laptops with high-resolution displays with the 15" Retina MBP less than a year ago; they still have one of the few high-resolution 15" laptops on the market. They also have a 13" version, although it is not as light as the MacBook Air. Most of those 3200x1800 products aren't out yet. Give them time. (However, it is true that that 3200x1800 display is considerably higher resolution than the Retina MBPs. I'm curious where this is going.)
Nowyouknow 13y ago
Is a high resolution screen really necessary on a 13" device? I know we want great color reproduction, but that's why I have my 21" external monitor. I've just switched over to the new MBA (first Apple computer ever) and before I did so I did a heck of a lot of research. Originally I wanted a touchscreen laptop with Windows 8 and 1080p, because, shit, here I am contemplating dropping a lot of cash on a new computer, might as well get spec'd out. I tried everything out in stores, I think the only Windows computer I really liked was the Acer S7(?). However, touch screen on my laptop was a no-go (don't see the practicality of it). Just couldn't get comfortable with it. The lack of Haswell and battery life was also a deal breaker after I tried out the MBA13. Sure I compromised on resolution, but I think I won big overall. 12 hours of battery life, Boot Camp (that I haven't even taken advantage of, but it's nice to know I have the option), OSX, and a great trackpad? I'll take that all day, every day. Paired with my external monitor, mouse and keyboard. I think this thing is going to last me a LONG time. i5/8GB/256GB
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  I want gorgeous text and the option for more screen real estate. "150%" scaling (if it worked properly) would be a nice tradeoff. But I'd settle for the specs of a T/W530 on a X-series chassis.

MichaelGG 13y ago

I'd say the design, keyboard and trackpad are rather subjective if you think they're "systematically better". The Retina display currently is better than other offerings, but even the Nexus 10 offers similar DPI. Give me a ThinkPad with a N10 display over a MacBook anyday. Also, there's no real reason Lenovo, Dell, etc. can't start shipping higher quality displays, keyboards, etc. While Apple's products are apparently solidly engineered, most of it is perception and design.

kposehn 13y ago
> Also, there's no real reason Lenovo, Dell, etc. can't start shipping higher quality displays, keyboards, etc. While Apple's products are apparently solidly engineered, most of it is perception and design. I disagree with this statement entirely, for one big reason: you're leaving out Apple's mastery of the supply chain. There are certainly component makers out there that will build stuff and slap it together for you, but Apple is the champ of running the whole stack with a relentless eye towards quality control. Think about the design and manufacturing of an iPhone, iPad or MacBook Pro. These are not things that you can compete with easily. There is a massive amount of effort involved in order to build a machine of comparable quality to an Apple device, and that remains one of their key advantages in the market. This is also an advantage they are dead-set on keeping. Most competitors don't have anywhere near the supply chain controls that Apple commands, and often don't even design their own devices (Dell). Finally, quality is a very important component of design. The prettiest laptop in the world is bad design if it falls apart or feels flimsy. Think less about design being the way something looks - instead, add how it feels, sounds, smells even, and every other part of the way you interact with it. That is design.
- lapa 13y ago
  Funny you mention quality. The Retina MBP has been plugged with issues such as image retention and hanky scrolling. Not something you expect when paying $2,000+ for a laptop. Stop by the MacRumors forum to see all the complaints.
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  Wow, Apple is good at their marketing/brand loyalty. Reminds me of the Apple brand loyal friends I had in the late 90s. He would go on about the build quality but had to point a fan at his laptop to keep it from overheating.

couradical 13y ago

Honestly, I wouldn't say that apple's notebook line is dominating. Ultrabooks have caught up, and most people who have a macbook aren't pressed to refurb it like with an iOS device. Apple's market share has held steady around 8-10% over the past 5 or so years, and isn't projected to change very much. For an example see [1]. I don't disagree that Apple hardware is a bit better in some places, but is that worth the $3-700 premium over a similarly specced Lenovo, Dell, or HP? Not to me. I'd say that it's hyperbole, but has an underlying valid point. [1]. http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2544115 http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2544115

omonra 13y ago

Apple is really a phone/tablet making company (as far as revenue & profits matter). Their laptops are really a rounding error now.