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You are making a bad assumption: that the EU only regulates customer pricing. This is not the case. The roaming fees that operators can charge one another withi

by jakobe 13y ago

You are making a bad assumption: that the EU only regulates customer pricing. This is not the case. The roaming fees that operators can charge one another within the EU are also regulated. I'm not sure about exact numbers, but at the moment I think they can charge eachother somewhere around 10 to 20 cents per minute at most (it differs for active/passive roaming). This limit would of course have to be lowered if roaming charges for customers were to be abolished.

rmc 13y ago
The roaming fees that operators can charge one another within the EU are also regulated. Exactly. The current law about customer level pricing also includes wholesale pricing regulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations#Common_limits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati...
Someone 13y ago
You are right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati...: "A wholesale price cap on Internet roaming was introduced on 1 July 2009". Limits at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations#Common_limits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati... give EUR 0.10 per minute of across-operator roaming charges.
fauigerzigerk 13y ago
I fear that we will end up with a complex web of interdependent price regulations that is extremely difficult to keep up-to-date in the face of changing technologies. I also wonder who will want to invest in next generation networks if the government regulates prices even in fiercely competitive markets.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  Mobile in the USA is pretty much the definition of a not fiercely competitive market. Prices and features among carriers are pretty much identical and expensive. And if you think that was coincidental, I have some spectrum to sell you... I'd argue the fact that the EU legislates for customer's rather than for business' benefit is part of the reason the mobile market there is in so much better shape than here.
  - fauigerzigerk 13y ago
    Many EU countries have regulators that make sure there is a proper market. I think that kind of regulation has indeed helped a lot. You need to consider where we come from. Back in the 80s most EU countries had exactly one telco, which was owned and operated by the government. I remember very well that prices back then were exorbitant compared to the US. When they privatised the industry, they created regulators to make sure private competitors could even enter the markets that were still dominated by the formerly state run behemoths. So all of a sudden there were tons of telcos, they were very well regulated and tried to expand beyond their national borders creating even more competition in the process. That's what led to lower prices. But the kind of regulation that creates functioning markets is very different from the kind of crude price regulation they are attempting to do now. What we're seeing now is the EU trying to be populist and shake their image as being remote and disconnected from people's needs. The telecom sector has been consolidating for a while now and we don't have as many players in the market as before. That's what regulators should focus on, not prices of particular services.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      Is it really that onerous (from a regulatory and compliance standpoint both) to say "You are not allowed to charge roaming fees?" It's not as if they're regulating the price of minutes or packages or something, here. They're outlawing a very particular class of charges with a very particular meaning, with what appears to be a very good reason.
      - fauigerzigerk 13y ago
        As I see it, they are weakening an important principle of competition law for no good reason at all. If they find that these prices are the result of insufficient competition they should act to change the structure of the market, not fix individual prices. That's just lazy populism.

by jakobe 13y ago

rmc 13y ago

The roaming fees that operators can charge one another within the EU are also regulated. Exactly. The current law about customer level pricing also includes wholesale pricing regulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations#Common_limits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati...

Someone 13y ago

You are right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati...: "A wholesale price cap on Internet roaming was introduced on 1 July 2009". Limits at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations#Common_limits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati... give EUR 0.10 per minute of across-operator roaming charges.

fauigerzigerk 13y ago

I fear that we will end up with a complex web of interdependent price regulations that is extremely difficult to keep up-to-date in the face of changing technologies. I also wonder who will want to invest in next generation networks if the government regulates prices even in fiercely competitive markets.

Karunamon 13y ago
Mobile in the USA is pretty much the definition of a not fiercely competitive market. Prices and features among carriers are pretty much identical and expensive. And if you think that was coincidental, I have some spectrum to sell you... I'd argue the fact that the EU legislates for customer's rather than for business' benefit is part of the reason the mobile market there is in so much better shape than here.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  Many EU countries have regulators that make sure there is a proper market. I think that kind of regulation has indeed helped a lot. You need to consider where we come from. Back in the 80s most EU countries had exactly one telco, which was owned and operated by the government. I remember very well that prices back then were exorbitant compared to the US. When they privatised the industry, they created regulators to make sure private competitors could even enter the markets that were still dominated by the formerly state run behemoths. So all of a sudden there were tons of telcos, they were very well regulated and tried to expand beyond their national borders creating even more competition in the process. That's what led to lower prices. But the kind of regulation that creates functioning markets is very different from the kind of crude price regulation they are attempting to do now. What we're seeing now is the EU trying to be populist and shake their image as being remote and disconnected from people's needs. The telecom sector has been consolidating for a while now and we don't have as many players in the market as before. That's what regulators should focus on, not prices of particular services.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Is it really that onerous (from a regulatory and compliance standpoint both) to say "You are not allowed to charge roaming fees?" It's not as if they're regulating the price of minutes or packages or something, here. They're outlawing a very particular class of charges with a very particular meaning, with what appears to be a very good reason.
    - fauigerzigerk 13y ago
      As I see it, they are weakening an important principle of competition law for no good reason at all. If they find that these prices are the result of insufficient competition they should act to change the structure of the market, not fix individual prices. That's just lazy populism.