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Meta: from the comments here it looks like many HNers share reddit's smug attitude towards obesity. I wonder how many of the people looking down on the fat are

Meta: from the comments here it looks like many HNers share reddit's smug attitude towards obesity. I wonder how many of the people looking down on the fat are only slim because that's simply what their body is predisposed to. I and pretty much every slim person I know certainly aren't making a slightest effort to stay slim and I seriously doubt that I'd have will power to eat less and exercise frequently if I was less lucky.

deletes 13y ago
I did it. I took some organizing and willpower. And a mirror near the place where you spend most of your day really helps to not ignore the situation.
simias 13y ago
We all have predispositions for all kinds of stuff. Doesn't mean we have to give up and just say "hey, that's how I am even if it kills me!". Of course, I'm not ignoring some people are obese because of a disease and can't really help it. I have a lot of empathy for them. I doubt they're the majority of the obese population however. I admit I do feel a bit smug towards those who just lack the willpower to try and eat better/less and exercise a bit. They don't respect themselves, why should I?
- gnaffle 13y ago
  Here's the problem: If you've never had to count calories, stick to a diet and exercise, and have had to so in a lot of challenging life situations where you have lots of other stuff to think about on top of that, you can't really claim that you have more willpower than those obese people, and that's the reason why they are fat and you are slim. Not any more than I can claim that I'm just better at pulling my self together and lighten up compared to some other suicidal, depressed person. If this willpower theory was correct, then it should be easy to confirm that the current obesity epidemic is caused by a matching lack of willpower epidemic in the population during the past 50 years. AFAIK, that's not supported by any evidence.
  - oftenwrong 13y ago
    The past 50 years have given rise to cheap, addictive, and unhealthy pre-made food. That pairs nicely with our more rapid pace of life. Even if our collective willpower has not changed, the environment under which we must maintain our strong will is more hostile.
jaggederest 13y ago
Personally, I'm engaged in a major effort of weight loss at the moment, I got close to my personal peak weight (210) and had to put the effort in again. When I was younger, I simply ate better food and did some working out and that was enough to drop back to a standard weight (170ish, on the high-but-normal side for my height). Recently, being about 10 years older now really makes it more difficult - I've had to be very careful about what I eat in a way that I don't expect most people will have the ability to do. It's a grind to lose a pound where previously I wouldn't have had to think about it. It does take a lot of willpower and effort - I think people who underrate that are doing themselves a (future) disservice, as judging by the obesity rates worldwide, if you don't have it now, you certainly will have and struggle with it in the future. It's akin to claiming that alcoholism is a moral failing - if you've never had a moment of truth with alcohol, it'll seem innocent and inconceivable that someone would have problems with it, making it possible to underestimate the power it can have over people.
- gnaffle 13y ago
  Exactly. Had the same problem, and also shared this smug view about when it was easy for me to lose weight, why not for others? Well, it turns out that I didn't have their bodies to struggle with, but I do know - and I'm quite a bit more humble.
rickdale 13y ago
I agree about the smug attitude, not necessary. As someone that was big and now has no belly, I believe calling someone fat is actually in accurate. More accurate to say the person has a lot of fat, or doesn't. Also, eat less and exercise more is NOT the solution. I cannot stress enough how hard it is for people to lose weight because they surrounded by a system that just wants them to buy shit to consume. That goes for the food industry, as well as the fitness supplement industry. The answer is eating the right foods and to be on some sort of food plan. I read at the end of 2011 a comment here on HN about the 4hb and how it changed some dudes life. So I read and applied and it changed my life, as well as some of my family members. So I am going to recommend to the people that want to lose their body fat, The Four Hour Body. Obesity is a big problem in this country. At my local grocery store there is an entire section cut out for scooters and I kid you not 20-30 people in a scooter when its busy. And these aren't old people scooters. I saw scooter traffic jam the other day, made me feel like I was in South Park. But not even sure where these people would start, its almost like they committed suicide with food and now are just being. Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope. We all have our crutches.
- entropyneur 13y ago
  > Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope. Exactly. We have a bit of an alcoholism problem where I live. It mostly affects the poor. When I visited the US it was strikingly obvious that obesity is very similar in that regard.
- mseebach 13y ago
  > surrounded by a system that just wants them to buy shit to consume > Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope Smug or not smug, this is an epic cop-out. There might well be complex physiological factors that are difficult if not impossible to get out in front of, I get that, I really do (and I'm not exactly rail-thin myself, FWIW) - but "the system, man" is NOT one of them. You're an adult, you're endowed with fairly rare skills (by virtue alone of being on HN you're way ahead of the curve), man up and deal with it (which, by the way, you did, and kudos for that - obviously "the system" wasn't that much in your way, after all).
k__ 13y ago
I don't look down on these people, I pity them. If you don't look "right" in the sense of our society, you're pretty much fucked. You can wait for society to change it's attitude, which won't happen soon or you can change yourself to get better responses from the rest of the world.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Also, it's going to be hilarious when those folks hit their mid-30s and their metabolism changes and they get fat real fast.
- bad_user 13y ago
  Eating a lot of sugar does that to you, as you gradually develop insulin resistance and you get fatter and fatter. And they put sugar in everything these days, even in bottled water. The funny thing is, the fatter you are, the more sensitive to food you get. If people want to maintain their normal weight, they only need to stop eating sugar. That's it.
  - TausAmmer 13y ago
    Can't stress this enough, people just don't want to face idea that current food industry is disaster. You can't get slim eating diet bread. Easier is to trow rock at someone than going for hard choice, eliminating sugar. Sugar is anything that is carbs.
    - bad_user 13y ago
      When I said sugar, I actually meant either fructose or sucrose (table sugar). Carbohydrates are technically referred to as sugars, however when speaking about fructose or sucrose, these are simple sugars. The difference between these simple sugars and more complex carbohydrates is that (1) simple sugars are burnt really, really fast by our body, giving us an immediate fuel boost and (2) our body ends up generating insulin in excess. High-fructose corn syrup in particular has been massively used by the food industry to give taste to otherwise tasteless foods. It's particularly aggravating since sugar has been used in giving taste to low-fat diet products. We get fat from sugar consumption, because it raises the insulin levels in our blood. Insulin is still a poorly understood hormone, however it has a role in removing the excess glucose from our blood (high levels are toxic) and it is known to stop the use of fat as an energy source (such that our body can consume the sugars first - isn't evolution amazing?). As we consume more sugar, we gain insulin resistance (e.g. the cells stop responding to insulin effectively), leading to hyperglycemia, after which the pancreas starts secreting more and more insulin, leading to hyperinsulinemia. And when you've got excess insulin in your blood, the body doesn't use fats anymore for fuel, ending up being stored permanently in the fat tissue. Uncontrolled (or due to genetic disorders) this can lead to Type 2 Diabetes. Diabetes was commonly attributed to genetic disorders or psychological disorders (stress), however the idea that obesity can lead to diabetes (and not the other way around) is also starting to gain traction. All people suffering from Type 2 Diabetes are predisposed to being obese, if they aren't already - actually I know people with type 2 diabetes and none of them are slim. Taken to extremes, somebody with Type 2 Diabetes could very well die of hunger, while still being fat. WARNING - by consuming artificial sweeteners, you're not really solving the problem, because the problem is insulin secretion by the pancreas, which is being triggered as a reflex ever since the sugar hits your taste buds. It's slightly better, but the best thing would be to cut sugar entirely from your diet and only resort to foods that are naturally sweet, like fruits or milk for your daily/weekly intake. Diet Coke is a bad joke. And the biggest problem we have, is that we got addicted to sugar. An acquaintance of mine working for a cigarette factory was explaining to me that cigarettes are enriched with a little sugar, because they found that sugar is even better for addiction than nicotine. On the other hand, in regards to carbohydrates in general, plants and fruits have been in our diet ever since forever. Not consuming plants and fruits would be a thing as stupid as replacing fats with sugar.
beloch 13y ago
If you're on the young side of 30, beware! The ability to stay slim without effort is something you may lose. Like many people, I stayed thin effortlessly in my twenties but really started packing on the pounds right around 30. I gained enough weight (I was technically obese according to BMI) that it took me a couple of years to get fit again. I have to really watch what I eat and exercise religiously to stay fit now. Having been fat, do I look down on the fat? Actually, I do. I know how hard it is to get fit and stay fit, but there are so many benefits I can't imagine not doing it. I felt horrible when I was fat. My knees and back gave me trouble. I felt slow and lethargic. I was afraid to play sports, go hiking, etc. (Hello feedback loop!). My dad (who is fat) developed type 2 diabetes and had some minor heart trouble, so I likely had that to look forward to on top of everything else! Losing weight/getting fit made all that go away. I could easily kick my twenty-something self's ass at just about anything now and that feels awesome. I take full advantage of this. I get out into the mountains and reap the benefits! Consciously, I think it'd be great if they came up with a pill that made people stay thin and fit without effort (the bacteria in the linked article has the potential to help with just one of these, maybe). Subconsciously I think I'd resent it if people could get the benefits I've worked hard for with zero effort. That implies a certain amount of pride in being fit I suppose, but it's natural to be proud of hard work. Perhaps if you had to work harder to stay thin you'd be a little more smug yourself.
- bad_user 13y ago
  There are currently 2 theories flying around about why we get fat - (1) lack of exercise and calories in excess + (2) a broken metabolism, currently attributed to hyperinsulinemia / insulin resistance. People that believe in the calories theory have trouble accepting that some people are fat simply because their body is malfunctioning, while people believing in the broken metabolism theory complain about how short-sighted the calories theory is. It is my belief that both theories are correct - some people get fat due to eating a lot and not exercising, while others get fat due to a malfunctioning metabolism. I lost 45 pounds by cutting sugar from my diet and by eating dissociated. I'm still lazy, I'm still not exercising, but my current weight has been stable for the past 6 months with little effort and I'm 10 pounds short of the ideal.

deletes 13y ago

I did it. I took some organizing and willpower. And a mirror near the place where you spend most of your day really helps to not ignore the situation.

simias 13y ago

We all have predispositions for all kinds of stuff. Doesn't mean we have to give up and just say "hey, that's how I am even if it kills me!". Of course, I'm not ignoring some people are obese because of a disease and can't really help it. I have a lot of empathy for them. I doubt they're the majority of the obese population however. I admit I do feel a bit smug towards those who just lack the willpower to try and eat better/less and exercise a bit. They don't respect themselves, why should I?

gnaffle 13y ago
Here's the problem: If you've never had to count calories, stick to a diet and exercise, and have had to so in a lot of challenging life situations where you have lots of other stuff to think about on top of that, you can't really claim that you have more willpower than those obese people, and that's the reason why they are fat and you are slim. Not any more than I can claim that I'm just better at pulling my self together and lighten up compared to some other suicidal, depressed person. If this willpower theory was correct, then it should be easy to confirm that the current obesity epidemic is caused by a matching lack of willpower epidemic in the population during the past 50 years. AFAIK, that's not supported by any evidence.
- oftenwrong 13y ago
  The past 50 years have given rise to cheap, addictive, and unhealthy pre-made food. That pairs nicely with our more rapid pace of life. Even if our collective willpower has not changed, the environment under which we must maintain our strong will is more hostile.

jaggederest 13y ago

Personally, I'm engaged in a major effort of weight loss at the moment, I got close to my personal peak weight (210) and had to put the effort in again. When I was younger, I simply ate better food and did some working out and that was enough to drop back to a standard weight (170ish, on the high-but-normal side for my height). Recently, being about 10 years older now really makes it more difficult - I've had to be very careful about what I eat in a way that I don't expect most people will have the ability to do. It's a grind to lose a pound where previously I wouldn't have had to think about it. It does take a lot of willpower and effort - I think people who underrate that are doing themselves a (future) disservice, as judging by the obesity rates worldwide, if you don't have it now, you certainly will have and struggle with it in the future. It's akin to claiming that alcoholism is a moral failing - if you've never had a moment of truth with alcohol, it'll seem innocent and inconceivable that someone would have problems with it, making it possible to underestimate the power it can have over people.

gnaffle 13y ago
Exactly. Had the same problem, and also shared this smug view about when it was easy for me to lose weight, why not for others? Well, it turns out that I didn't have their bodies to struggle with, but I do know - and I'm quite a bit more humble.

rickdale 13y ago

I agree about the smug attitude, not necessary. As someone that was big and now has no belly, I believe calling someone fat is actually in accurate. More accurate to say the person has a lot of fat, or doesn't. Also, eat less and exercise more is NOT the solution. I cannot stress enough how hard it is for people to lose weight because they surrounded by a system that just wants them to buy shit to consume. That goes for the food industry, as well as the fitness supplement industry. The answer is eating the right foods and to be on some sort of food plan. I read at the end of 2011 a comment here on HN about the 4hb and how it changed some dudes life. So I read and applied and it changed my life, as well as some of my family members. So I am going to recommend to the people that want to lose their body fat, The Four Hour Body. Obesity is a big problem in this country. At my local grocery store there is an entire section cut out for scooters and I kid you not 20-30 people in a scooter when its busy. And these aren't old people scooters. I saw scooter traffic jam the other day, made me feel like I was in South Park. But not even sure where these people would start, its almost like they committed suicide with food and now are just being. Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope. We all have our crutches.

entropyneur 13y ago
> Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope. Exactly. We have a bit of an alcoholism problem where I live. It mostly affects the poor. When I visited the US it was strikingly obvious that obesity is very similar in that regard.
mseebach 13y ago
> surrounded by a system that just wants them to buy shit to consume > Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope Smug or not smug, this is an epic cop-out. There might well be complex physiological factors that are difficult if not impossible to get out in front of, I get that, I really do (and I'm not exactly rail-thin myself, FWIW) - but "the system, man" is NOT one of them. You're an adult, you're endowed with fairly rare skills (by virtue alone of being on HN you're way ahead of the curve), man up and deal with it (which, by the way, you did, and kudos for that - obviously "the system" wasn't that much in your way, after all).

k__ 13y ago

I don't look down on these people, I pity them. If you don't look "right" in the sense of our society, you're pretty much fucked. You can wait for society to change it's attitude, which won't happen soon or you can change yourself to get better responses from the rest of the world.

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Also, it's going to be hilarious when those folks hit their mid-30s and their metabolism changes and they get fat real fast.

bad_user 13y ago
Eating a lot of sugar does that to you, as you gradually develop insulin resistance and you get fatter and fatter. And they put sugar in everything these days, even in bottled water. The funny thing is, the fatter you are, the more sensitive to food you get. If people want to maintain their normal weight, they only need to stop eating sugar. That's it.
- TausAmmer 13y ago
  Can't stress this enough, people just don't want to face idea that current food industry is disaster. You can't get slim eating diet bread. Easier is to trow rock at someone than going for hard choice, eliminating sugar. Sugar is anything that is carbs.
  - bad_user 13y ago
    When I said sugar, I actually meant either fructose or sucrose (table sugar). Carbohydrates are technically referred to as sugars, however when speaking about fructose or sucrose, these are simple sugars. The difference between these simple sugars and more complex carbohydrates is that (1) simple sugars are burnt really, really fast by our body, giving us an immediate fuel boost and (2) our body ends up generating insulin in excess. High-fructose corn syrup in particular has been massively used by the food industry to give taste to otherwise tasteless foods. It's particularly aggravating since sugar has been used in giving taste to low-fat diet products. We get fat from sugar consumption, because it raises the insulin levels in our blood. Insulin is still a poorly understood hormone, however it has a role in removing the excess glucose from our blood (high levels are toxic) and it is known to stop the use of fat as an energy source (such that our body can consume the sugars first - isn't evolution amazing?). As we consume more sugar, we gain insulin resistance (e.g. the cells stop responding to insulin effectively), leading to hyperglycemia, after which the pancreas starts secreting more and more insulin, leading to hyperinsulinemia. And when you've got excess insulin in your blood, the body doesn't use fats anymore for fuel, ending up being stored permanently in the fat tissue. Uncontrolled (or due to genetic disorders) this can lead to Type 2 Diabetes. Diabetes was commonly attributed to genetic disorders or psychological disorders (stress), however the idea that obesity can lead to diabetes (and not the other way around) is also starting to gain traction. All people suffering from Type 2 Diabetes are predisposed to being obese, if they aren't already - actually I know people with type 2 diabetes and none of them are slim. Taken to extremes, somebody with Type 2 Diabetes could very well die of hunger, while still being fat. WARNING - by consuming artificial sweeteners, you're not really solving the problem, because the problem is insulin secretion by the pancreas, which is being triggered as a reflex ever since the sugar hits your taste buds. It's slightly better, but the best thing would be to cut sugar entirely from your diet and only resort to foods that are naturally sweet, like fruits or milk for your daily/weekly intake. Diet Coke is a bad joke. And the biggest problem we have, is that we got addicted to sugar. An acquaintance of mine working for a cigarette factory was explaining to me that cigarettes are enriched with a little sugar, because they found that sugar is even better for addiction than nicotine. On the other hand, in regards to carbohydrates in general, plants and fruits have been in our diet ever since forever. Not consuming plants and fruits would be a thing as stupid as replacing fats with sugar.

beloch 13y ago

If you're on the young side of 30, beware! The ability to stay slim without effort is something you may lose. Like many people, I stayed thin effortlessly in my twenties but really started packing on the pounds right around 30. I gained enough weight (I was technically obese according to BMI) that it took me a couple of years to get fit again. I have to really watch what I eat and exercise religiously to stay fit now. Having been fat, do I look down on the fat? Actually, I do. I know how hard it is to get fit and stay fit, but there are so many benefits I can't imagine not doing it. I felt horrible when I was fat. My knees and back gave me trouble. I felt slow and lethargic. I was afraid to play sports, go hiking, etc. (Hello feedback loop!). My dad (who is fat) developed type 2 diabetes and had some minor heart trouble, so I likely had that to look forward to on top of everything else! Losing weight/getting fit made all that go away. I could easily kick my twenty-something self's ass at just about anything now and that feels awesome. I take full advantage of this. I get out into the mountains and reap the benefits! Consciously, I think it'd be great if they came up with a pill that made people stay thin and fit without effort (the bacteria in the linked article has the potential to help with just one of these, maybe). Subconsciously I think I'd resent it if people could get the benefits I've worked hard for with zero effort. That implies a certain amount of pride in being fit I suppose, but it's natural to be proud of hard work. Perhaps if you had to work harder to stay thin you'd be a little more smug yourself.

bad_user 13y ago
There are currently 2 theories flying around about why we get fat - (1) lack of exercise and calories in excess + (2) a broken metabolism, currently attributed to hyperinsulinemia / insulin resistance. People that believe in the calories theory have trouble accepting that some people are fat simply because their body is malfunctioning, while people believing in the broken metabolism theory complain about how short-sighted the calories theory is. It is my belief that both theories are correct - some people get fat due to eating a lot and not exercising, while others get fat due to a malfunctioning metabolism. I lost 45 pounds by cutting sugar from my diet and by eating dissociated. I'm still lazy, I'm still not exercising, but my current weight has been stable for the past 6 months with little effort and I'm 10 pounds short of the ideal.