5 ms·
This comes from a good place but I think this is pretty naive. This is going to be an unpopular view here because most HN'ers really want to believe that the te
by trustfundbaby 13y ago
This comes from a good place but I think this is pretty naive. This is going to be an unpopular view here because most HN'ers really want to believe that the tech world is one based on meritocracy. The truth is that it doesn't really work that way.
I'm not a woman, but I'm a minority in Tech and most of the same scenarios and situations that apply to gender are very applicable based on ethnicity as well.
Let me take the points I contest one by one
If anything if you show up as a woman in a room of 200 men you have an advantage at the networking event not the disadvantage
This is how it feels like at the time, and if all you're trying to do is pitch your business or get an introduction to someone more serious, this might even be correct. The real problem here is when you're not taken seriously as a techie, and dismissed where someone who looked like you but was white or male might get that benefit of the doubt that gets them seed funding.
I would rather they introduce these women as “Amazing People” rockstars in their field. Can you imagine an article Men in Tech — Meet the men behind Dropbox and Airbnb? No. That article will more likely get titled — Meet 2 of the most powerful CEO’s in Silicon Valley changing the way we think about sharing
This argument has a parallel in what people in the Black community call the "exceptional Negro effect". People look at folks like Obama, Colin Powell, Neil deGrasse Tyson and wonder why you can't be like them. After all if those people could succeed against all the odds why can't you? right?
The problem is the "all the odds" part, and also the fact that these people are "exceptional". They're really good at what they do and with some serious willpower and perseverance they can ascend to the tops of their professions. The problem is that, by definition, these people are 1% of the entire population.
The rest of the world, trying to make it will usually be average/above average and in those tiers the "against all the odds" becomes just that tad bit more difficult when you factor in gender/ethnic biases.
Point being. If you're actually rockstar, you can probably ignore gender issues because you're in the 1% and likely to succeed anyway. The unfortunate thing though is that people like this can't really identify with the average woman/minority, because their brilliance effectively insulated them from things that less fortunate people who look like them had to go through.
I mean, why do you think that the people who break barriers in gender and race are ALWAYS exceptional? Isn't it odd that a person just couldn't be average at what they did and break that barrier? that they have to be that much better than comparable white people/men to do it?
I never have any expectations that the person I am talking to is going to value me less because I am a woman — because I myself do not value myself less because I am a woman
This is great. But again, just because you don't have that expectation doesn't mean that reality won't slap you in the face eventually ... and rudely. I'm not saying every male is out to get every woman in tech, but there are subtle biases that can really hold a person down, like having to be that much better than a person with your same skills just to get the same recognition that they get
Men and powerful women would not bring gender into this equation and instead would come up with all the reasons they thought the meeting went well or didn’t go well. This is about personal self confidence and empowerment.
If you stop looking for gender obstacles you will probably see other aspects of your situation with new clarity
Again, this is a great technique. And I've always applied it, because I want to succeed. Nothing brings you down faster than thinking something out of your control like race or gender is holding you back. So whenever I encounter something like it. I file it away for reference and think of a way around my problem, just like she suggests.
But when I do make it, I plan to keep an eye out for ways to make sure that the things that were obstacles for me based on ethnicity are NEVER an obstacle for anyone else if I can help it.
To close. I understand what she is trying to say, I've been that person myself (fuck a handout, screw someone helping me get over). But i've since realized that the subtle biases in friends hiring friends, helping other friends get hired, or cognitive errors that people make all the time, can add up to very powerful forces that make life just that much more difficult for a non-outlier-brilliant woman/minority trying to make it in Tech.
- muglug 13y agoThis. I'm all for differing opinions, but this article doesn't make sense in the context of an industry that's still deeply hostile to women in mid-level jobs, or even women just talking about technology.
- derefr 13y ago> I've been that person myself (fuck a handout, screw someone helping me get over). I don't think she was saying that at all. Her perspective seemed very rationalist-consequentialist. I think it was something vaguely like this: > Woman in a room of 200 men? Use it to your advantage! Handouts? Use those to your advantage too! Use every possible advantage, and don't limit yourself to only taking the help-outs reserved for "women." > Identifying with a label only serves to limit which others you'll think of banding with to achieve greater things: to look specifically to women for camaraderie is to pit men as implicit adversaries, unable to be considered for use in any Egalitarian mutually-beneficial way. > Every human being is another potential ally on your way to the top; don't prejudice yourself against putting in the work on anyone! (They might be prejudiced against you, but as long as you have a set limit on how much goodwill you're willing to spend on someone, they either convert or they don't; it doesn't matter whether they were biased one way or the other to begin with.)
- kaitai 13y agoThank you. This is good. Every generation there's a set of young people who discover "self-confidence is enough" and "discrimination is over." Over twenty or thirty years some groups of them realize that this is not true. As you say above, the technique of not looking at gender and looking for what I personally can improve or do differently is the rational and utilitarian course of action. It is, after all, the only thing I can do as an individual. But there are those situations that keep coming up now and then that don't have a solution -- for me. For other people, there is a solution. For me, it becomes clear that I simply need to go elsewhere. Fine. I can be as flexible as I need to be. But when it's, say, meeting with a venture capitalist and I'm always not quite what they're looking for, or if it's meeting with my grad school advisor and always being too talkative and emotional, or etc. -- and nothing I do changes this! -- and I have to work around venture capitalists/advisors/etc... it really slows me down, because I also have to work around the same sh*t that everyone else does.