3 ms·

Is it good or bad for BrainTree that this news is now public?

by kloncks 13y ago

nonchalance 13y ago
> More recently, it had been in acquisition talks with Square, which also fell through, possibly because Braintree is asking for too high a valuation. > According to industry sources, Braintree has been asking for $1 billion, which seems unrealistic. It would seem that other suitors are trying to pressure Braintree to lower their target
- kloncks 13y ago
  Square processes $10b. BrainTree processes $10b. How is Square valued at $4b and BrainTree can't sell for $1b?
  - benologist 13y ago
    Growth, and probably Stripe plays no small part.
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    That's not how valuations work. There are a lot more factors than current revenue. Their business models are somewhat different.
  - jordanthoms 13y ago
    Maybe it's because Square has a higher percentage of small merchants on their service, who can't negotiate better rates?
  - pedalpete 13y ago
    Isn't valuation is based on not only current revenue and business model but also forecasts and potential? Square has a bit of a different opportunity than BrainTree as they are focusing on simplifying a real-world payments platform vs online and mobile payments. There seems to be less competition and a larger market for Square vs. Braintree I think.
  - jfarmer 13y ago
    What are the first and second derivatives of those numbers with respect to time?
    - jacquesm 13y ago
      That's the right question to ask. The absolute values are important but not as important as the trends.
  - tomkarlo 13y ago
    Valuation is based on growth and expected future profit more than current revenue or processing volume. If two companies both process $10bn, but one makes 3% and is growing 25% YoY while the other makes 1% and is growing 5%, they should have radically different valuations.
  - ajsharp 13y ago
    Growth potential, total potential market size, other possible revenue sources (e.g. Square Marketplace).
  - abalone 13y ago
    Square probably has better gross margins than Braintree because they target a different market: small businesses. The value Square adds to that market is much more substantial: free POS system, mobile wallet app, promotion in their marketplace, Jack Dorsey's autographed photo, etc. Braintree (and Stripe) target ecommerce startups. Their value-add is streamlined APIs and tailored customer service. That value-add is nice but relatively smaller and less scalable to boot. As soon as those sites get big they will negotiate for lower rates they can get from a commodity processor. No doubt the big customers in their portfolio already have and we just don't know it. Square's got a whole world of small business to expand into, a much larger market than ecommerce startups. And their margins are more sustainable; it takes an awful lot of growth for a merchant to justify switching out all their POS systems and other Square lock-in, just to shave a few basis points off their processing rate.
cesarpereira 13y ago
Both (leaning more heavily towards bad) Bad: Paypal as a potential suitor will make some existing and potential customers very nervous and that won't be good for customer acquisition. Other potential suitors may see other heavyweights passing on the deal as a negative. Good: The attention may increase the pool of suitors.
- callmeed 13y ago
  Exactly. We process over $1M a year with Braintree (that's why I posted this article). In my opinion, PayPal is the worst possible scenario short of Braintree shutting down. The thought of forcing thousands of customers to re-enter billing information makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
  - pbreit 13y ago
    Why do you think that would be the case? That did not happen with Payflow and PayPal mgmt is quite a bit better now (the CEO mainly).
  - cicloid 13y ago
    Isn't supposed to be easy to move the card details from the vault to other provider?
  - ajsharp 13y ago
    Nothing would be required of customers. They'd migrate the data over to Paypal's setup in such a scenario. Card data is stored with a symmetric encryption algorithm (e.g. reversible), so this type of thing could happen fairly easily.
  - dkubb 13y ago
    Contact Braintree if you're concerned. There are processes in place where they can transfer payment information (including credit cards stored for recurring billing purposes) to another payment gateway.
- bhauer 13y ago
  I would agree with the "bad" assessment. If I had accounts at BrainTree, I would be very worried about PayPal as a suitor. Ostensibly a fair percentage elected to use BrainTree because there were Not PayPal. I presently steer clients away from PayPal, and had previously recommended BrainTree. This casts doubt on that going forward. This would be similar to Oracle acquiring MySQL.

Is it good or bad for BrainTree that this news is now public?

by kloncks 13y ago

Is it good or bad for BrainTree that this news is now public?

> More recently, it had been in acquisition talks with Square, which also fell through, possibly because Braintree is asking for too high a valuation. > According to industry sources, Braintree has been asking for $1 billion, which seems unrealistic. It would seem that other suitors are trying to pressure Braintree to lower their target

kloncks 13y ago
Square processes $10b. BrainTree processes $10b. How is Square valued at $4b and BrainTree can't sell for $1b?
- benologist 13y ago
  Growth, and probably Stripe plays no small part.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  That's not how valuations work. There are a lot more factors than current revenue. Their business models are somewhat different.
- jordanthoms 13y ago
  Maybe it's because Square has a higher percentage of small merchants on their service, who can't negotiate better rates?
- pedalpete 13y ago
  Isn't valuation is based on not only current revenue and business model but also forecasts and potential? Square has a bit of a different opportunity than BrainTree as they are focusing on simplifying a real-world payments platform vs online and mobile payments. There seems to be less competition and a larger market for Square vs. Braintree I think.
- jfarmer 13y ago
  What are the first and second derivatives of those numbers with respect to time?
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    That's the right question to ask. The absolute values are important but not as important as the trends.
- tomkarlo 13y ago
  Valuation is based on growth and expected future profit more than current revenue or processing volume. If two companies both process $10bn, but one makes 3% and is growing 25% YoY while the other makes 1% and is growing 5%, they should have radically different valuations.
- ajsharp 13y ago
  Growth potential, total potential market size, other possible revenue sources (e.g. Square Marketplace).
- abalone 13y ago
  Square probably has better gross margins than Braintree because they target a different market: small businesses. The value Square adds to that market is much more substantial: free POS system, mobile wallet app, promotion in their marketplace, Jack Dorsey's autographed photo, etc. Braintree (and Stripe) target ecommerce startups. Their value-add is streamlined APIs and tailored customer service. That value-add is nice but relatively smaller and less scalable to boot. As soon as those sites get big they will negotiate for lower rates they can get from a commodity processor. No doubt the big customers in their portfolio already have and we just don't know it. Square's got a whole world of small business to expand into, a much larger market than ecommerce startups. And their margins are more sustainable; it takes an awful lot of growth for a merchant to justify switching out all their POS systems and other Square lock-in, just to shave a few basis points off their processing rate.

cesarpereira 13y ago

Both (leaning more heavily towards bad) Bad: Paypal as a potential suitor will make some existing and potential customers very nervous and that won't be good for customer acquisition. Other potential suitors may see other heavyweights passing on the deal as a negative. Good: The attention may increase the pool of suitors.

callmeed 13y ago
Exactly. We process over $1M a year with Braintree (that's why I posted this article). In my opinion, PayPal is the worst possible scenario short of Braintree shutting down. The thought of forcing thousands of customers to re-enter billing information makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
- pbreit 13y ago
  Why do you think that would be the case? That did not happen with Payflow and PayPal mgmt is quite a bit better now (the CEO mainly).
- cicloid 13y ago
  Isn't supposed to be easy to move the card details from the vault to other provider?
- ajsharp 13y ago
  Nothing would be required of customers. They'd migrate the data over to Paypal's setup in such a scenario. Card data is stored with a symmetric encryption algorithm (e.g. reversible), so this type of thing could happen fairly easily.
- dkubb 13y ago
  Contact Braintree if you're concerned. There are processes in place where they can transfer payment information (including credit cards stored for recurring billing purposes) to another payment gateway.
bhauer 13y ago
I would agree with the "bad" assessment. If I had accounts at BrainTree, I would be very worried about PayPal as a suitor. Ostensibly a fair percentage elected to use BrainTree because there were Not PayPal. I presently steer clients away from PayPal, and had previously recommended BrainTree. This casts doubt on that going forward. This would be similar to Oracle acquiring MySQL.