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How could anyone demand a refund from a project they funded with no clear timetable, no guarantee of delivery, and no budget? Projects don't have to be success

How could anyone demand a refund from a project they funded with no clear timetable, no guarantee of delivery, and no budget? Projects don't have to be successful, so I see no way that Indiegogo could be held responsible.

dangrossman 13y ago
The timetable, guarantees, etc. hold no relevance outside of a courtroom. Banks do not hold a trial before honoring a request to reverse a charge; they take the cardholder's word. Unless the merchant can provide a signature and proof of delivery of some item, they're not going to be able to dispute the chargeback either; the bank is leaving it up to the court system to resolve payment disputes outside of a few narrow circumstances. Nobody's going to take every funder that charges back a payment to court to prove they are not owed that refund, so in practice, everyone involved in crowdfunding has to deal with the fact that some of the money is going to disappear no matter what is written.
modoc 13y ago
Credit Card Chargebacks. It's easier for a card company to agree with their customer who says "I paid for this thing on the internet and the company never delivered", than to dig into the details of a random crowd funded project, and read through any promises or lack thereof of deliverables, etc...
deleted 13y ago
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rgbrenner 13y ago
You're assuming no fraud at all exists on Indiegogo. Someone could demand a refund because: 1) Their credit card was stolen and used to fund a project. They never agreed to the charge,they're entitled to a refund. 2) The project was fraudulent. The creators never intended to fund the project using the money. They ran off with it instead. Those people were deceived, and are entitled to a refund (in general, but also under the credit card associations rules). Some potion of transaction on Indiegogo will be fraudulent. Paypal or Indiegogo must have a way of recovering that money.. if they don't then they will have to cover it themselves. That's the way it works. That's why payment processors create reserves for high-risk businesses.
- kamjam 13y ago
  This. As much as I hate PayPal (esp their "customer service"), this policy makes perfect sense to me. With stories of fraud on Kickstarter, due diligence is your friend! So with Kickstarter (and IGG, I don't know their policy) taking 5% and no responsibility, users only have chargebacks as a course of action. I don't think it is the $25 donationsusers that care, what about the users who donate $2500? http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/6/27/3099051/backers-rights-what-kickstarter-funders-can-expect-when-they-pledge http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/6/27/3099051/backers-righ... http://www.dailydot.com/business/why-kickstarter-ripe-scams/ http://www.dailydot.com/business/why-kickstarter-ripe-scams/

dangrossman 13y ago

The timetable, guarantees, etc. hold no relevance outside of a courtroom. Banks do not hold a trial before honoring a request to reverse a charge; they take the cardholder's word. Unless the merchant can provide a signature and proof of delivery of some item, they're not going to be able to dispute the chargeback either; the bank is leaving it up to the court system to resolve payment disputes outside of a few narrow circumstances. Nobody's going to take every funder that charges back a payment to court to prove they are not owed that refund, so in practice, everyone involved in crowdfunding has to deal with the fact that some of the money is going to disappear no matter what is written.

modoc 13y ago

Credit Card Chargebacks. It's easier for a card company to agree with their customer who says "I paid for this thing on the internet and the company never delivered", than to dig into the details of a random crowd funded project, and read through any promises or lack thereof of deliverables, etc...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rgbrenner 13y ago

You're assuming no fraud at all exists on Indiegogo. Someone could demand a refund because: 1) Their credit card was stolen and used to fund a project. They never agreed to the charge,they're entitled to a refund. 2) The project was fraudulent. The creators never intended to fund the project using the money. They ran off with it instead. Those people were deceived, and are entitled to a refund (in general, but also under the credit card associations rules). Some potion of transaction on Indiegogo will be fraudulent. Paypal or Indiegogo must have a way of recovering that money.. if they don't then they will have to cover it themselves. That's the way it works. That's why payment processors create reserves for high-risk businesses.

kamjam 13y ago
This. As much as I hate PayPal (esp their "customer service"), this policy makes perfect sense to me. With stories of fraud on Kickstarter, due diligence is your friend! So with Kickstarter (and IGG, I don't know their policy) taking 5% and no responsibility, users only have chargebacks as a course of action. I don't think it is the $25 donationsusers that care, what about the users who donate $2500? http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/6/27/3099051/backers-rights-what-kickstarter-funders-can-expect-when-they-pledge http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/6/27/3099051/backers-righ... http://www.dailydot.com/business/why-kickstarter-ripe-scams/ http://www.dailydot.com/business/why-kickstarter-ripe-scams/