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http://xkcd.com/538/ http://xkcd.com/538/

Homunculiheaded 13y ago
Please let's not mindlessly post this comic and act that because rubber hose crypt-analysis exists we shouldn't even bother. One huge point I keep trying to bring up to friends when I talk about security is: yes if you are the specific target of the state or any asymmetrically powerful adversary you are in a lot of trouble. But with large scale surveillance the bigger concern is not becoming a target in the first place. Properly securing sensitive communications is a good first step in ensuring that you aren't picked up in sweep through the data. Sure encryption in the first place may flag you, but at least in the current situation it isn't going to be enough to invoke any rubber hose techniques.
- VikingCoder 13y ago
  I propose that we do act like governments can detain you, until you reveal your password, because that does in fact happen. I propose that people abandon the concept that they can archive their email forever, and instead use systems like a Mission Impossible Tape that self-destructs the instant you're done reading it. I propose that the only way to stop the government from making you decipher your messages, is if it's impossible for you to decipher them. Everyone should use Perfect Forward Secrecy systems.
- solnyshok 13y ago
  I think you're right. But once you discuss evasion methods on hn, doesn't it flag you, me and other participants automatically? Or have you been smart enough to buy anonimous sim card (in a country where it is still possible) and to use it to register anonymous email, then access hn via anonymous cell line through anonymizing vpn or tor? And how often can you throw away sims/cells...
aryastark 13y ago
We do not live in an episode of 24, and a world where Jack Bauer exists. We live in reality. A reality where governments abuse mass surveillance to squash political movements all the time. If the NSA had the power they do today, back in the '60s, there would be no MLK Jr. or civil rights movement. It would be interesting to see what role the NSA played in the fizzle-out of the Occupy movement. My bet is, they had a prominent role in not letting it truly matter.
- craigyk 13y ago
  oh geez... then why is gay rights making progress? or MJ legalization? what was their mechanism for "fizzling-out" Occupy?
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    Quite. The actual trend in the US is towards greater freedom, on the whole (women in states with restrictive abortion laws may justifiably disagree). I find it ironic that Snowden has sought political asylum in a country where you can (as of very recently) be prosecuted for saying it's cool or natural to be gay.

Please let's not mindlessly post this comic and act that because rubber hose crypt-analysis exists we shouldn't even bother. One huge point I keep trying to bring up to friends when I talk about security is: yes if you are the specific target of the state or any asymmetrically powerful adversary you are in a lot of trouble. But with large scale surveillance the bigger concern is not becoming a target in the first place. Properly securing sensitive communications is a good first step in ensuring that you aren't picked up in sweep through the data. Sure encryption in the first place may flag you, but at least in the current situation it isn't going to be enough to invoke any rubber hose techniques.

VikingCoder 13y ago
I propose that we do act like governments can detain you, until you reveal your password, because that does in fact happen. I propose that people abandon the concept that they can archive their email forever, and instead use systems like a Mission Impossible Tape that self-destructs the instant you're done reading it. I propose that the only way to stop the government from making you decipher your messages, is if it's impossible for you to decipher them. Everyone should use Perfect Forward Secrecy systems.
solnyshok 13y ago
I think you're right. But once you discuss evasion methods on hn, doesn't it flag you, me and other participants automatically? Or have you been smart enough to buy anonimous sim card (in a country where it is still possible) and to use it to register anonymous email, then access hn via anonymous cell line through anonymizing vpn or tor? And how often can you throw away sims/cells...

aryastark 13y ago

We do not live in an episode of 24, and a world where Jack Bauer exists. We live in reality. A reality where governments abuse mass surveillance to squash political movements all the time. If the NSA had the power they do today, back in the '60s, there would be no MLK Jr. or civil rights movement. It would be interesting to see what role the NSA played in the fizzle-out of the Occupy movement. My bet is, they had a prominent role in not letting it truly matter.

craigyk 13y ago
oh geez... then why is gay rights making progress? or MJ legalization? what was their mechanism for "fizzling-out" Occupy?
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Quite. The actual trend in the US is towards greater freedom, on the whole (women in states with restrictive abortion laws may justifiably disagree). I find it ironic that Snowden has sought political asylum in a country where you can (as of very recently) be prosecuted for saying it's cool or natural to be gay.