5 ms·

This maybe an option in the making: https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android

by mythz 13y ago

pjmlp 13y ago
This is actually the only place where I see a future for Dart.
- mythz 13y ago
  I like Dart, it's the most productive language/environment I've ever used and if it's unable to gain any traction on its core objective building of client-side complex web apps, it will still have a compelling server-side story ala (node.js) after v1.0 is released and the ecosystem catches up with it.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. The only way Dart will have any future is if Google makes a requirement to use it somewhere.
    - mythz 13y ago
      Having developed several server-side projects in Dart, the language/environment brings a hell of a lot to the table optimized for reducing complexity and improving productivity which: - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server The one thing it's notably lacking is a large ecosystem which I'm hoping will improve after v1.0's release.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        Most of your points were already covered by Smaltalk, and we all know where it is nowadays. Sorry, but I lost count of the languages I have used since 1986 and just don't believe in Dart ever taking off unless Google makes it so.
        mythz 13y ago
        Smalltalk? meets very few of those points, whilst it has inspired a number of languages it's not a real-world choice itself for developing complex web apps. Dart's closest language is JavaScript (which it also transpiles to) of which it presents a compelling option and holds a number of advantages over - esp. for maintaining large web apps. I've also used a number of languages in the last 15 years, and I've personally found Dart to be overall be the most productive which has become my go-to language whenever I need to something quick done. It's missing an ecosystem of mature libs which popularity helps most with - but Google has a ton of investment behind Dart which is developing the entire platform (language/libs/toolchain) giving it its best chance to succeed - if it fails to gain any traction it wont be for technical reasons. It looks like it will take over and be the preferred to succeed GWT and Closure Library, with internal usage it should see continued investment for years to come.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        > - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony Smaltalk had it. > - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) Smaltalk had it. > - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) Smaltalk VMs, actually Self, were where the first usuable JIT compilers were developed. > - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) Self and StrongTalk were quite performant. SIMD was not available back then. > - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable Smaltalk had it. > - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks Smaltalk had real collections. > - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) Smalltalk has streams. > - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability Fare enough regarding WebUI, as the web did not exist back then. However Smaltalk is responsible for the MVC concept. > - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified VM pruning in Smaltalk environments for deployment. > - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server This is only true when using Dartium. Transpiling to JavaScript does not count.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. People could have said the same thing about Go, and yet it's catching up quite nicely. It doesn't have to bring something "new", just a coherent offer, and that it does.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        > People could have said the same thing about Go, and yet it's catching up quite nicely. Yes, in a few places that get lots of up-votes in HN. In the real Fortune 500 world, it is all about JVM and .NET languages.

This maybe an option in the making: https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android

by mythz 13y ago

This maybe an option in the making: https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android

pjmlp 13y ago

This is actually the only place where I see a future for Dart.

mythz 13y ago
I like Dart, it's the most productive language/environment I've ever used and if it's unable to gain any traction on its core objective building of client-side complex web apps, it will still have a compelling server-side story ala (node.js) after v1.0 is released and the ecosystem catches up with it.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. The only way Dart will have any future is if Google makes a requirement to use it somewhere.
  - mythz 13y ago
    Having developed several server-side projects in Dart, the language/environment brings a hell of a lot to the table optimized for reducing complexity and improving productivity which: - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server The one thing it's notably lacking is a large ecosystem which I'm hoping will improve after v1.0's release.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Most of your points were already covered by Smaltalk, and we all know where it is nowadays. Sorry, but I lost count of the languages I have used since 1986 and just don't believe in Dart ever taking off unless Google makes it so.
      - mythz 13y ago
        Smalltalk? meets very few of those points, whilst it has inspired a number of languages it's not a real-world choice itself for developing complex web apps. Dart's closest language is JavaScript (which it also transpiles to) of which it presents a compelling option and holds a number of advantages over - esp. for maintaining large web apps. I've also used a number of languages in the last 15 years, and I've personally found Dart to be overall be the most productive which has become my go-to language whenever I need to something quick done. It's missing an ecosystem of mature libs which popularity helps most with - but Google has a ton of investment behind Dart which is developing the entire platform (language/libs/toolchain) giving it its best chance to succeed - if it fails to gain any traction it wont be for technical reasons. It looks like it will take over and be the preferred to succeed GWT and Closure Library, with internal usage it should see continued investment for years to come.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        > - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony Smaltalk had it. > - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) Smaltalk had it. > - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) Smaltalk VMs, actually Self, were where the first usuable JIT compilers were developed. > - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) Self and StrongTalk were quite performant. SIMD was not available back then. > - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable Smaltalk had it. > - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks Smaltalk had real collections. > - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) Smalltalk has streams. > - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability Fare enough regarding WebUI, as the web did not exist back then. However Smaltalk is responsible for the MVC concept. > - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified VM pruning in Smaltalk environments for deployment. > - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server This is only true when using Dartium. Transpiling to JavaScript does not count.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. People could have said the same thing about Go, and yet it's catching up quite nicely. It doesn't have to bring something "new", just a coherent offer, and that it does.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      > People could have said the same thing about Go, and yet it's catching up quite nicely. Yes, in a few places that get lots of up-votes in HN. In the real Fortune 500 world, it is all about JVM and .NET languages.