4 ms·

Holy shit this article is so bad. Let's see here we've got * taking quotes from troll accounts and implying those views are the same as Mike Krahuliks * calli

by pyrocat 13y ago

Holy shit this article is so bad. Let's see here we've got * taking quotes from troll accounts and implying those views are the same as Mike Krahuliks * calling out Penny Arcade for failing to address an incident of sexual assault among enforcers (spoilers: the offender was quickly kicked out and banned from PAX, which isn't even mentioned in the article) * implying that everyone who supports Mike makes rape and death threats This is a great hit piece disguised as socially responsible commentary. Here's Mike's response for those interested in another side of the story http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification There are far more viewpoints than the 2 extremes that seem to be outlined in this article, and I'm not defending either extreme. I think the original comic was funny if a little off color. I think the initial reaction to the comic was vitriolic and overblown. I think Mike's response to that vitriol was unprofessional and, as he put it "a massive AOE that hurt a lot of innocent people". That said, he's not a villain. Despite what people want to believe, Mike has owned up to his mistakes in the past (see his handling of the transphobic comments he made) and genuinely seems willing to learn from these experiences and be a better person. This whole controversy seems to be perpetuated by some very vocal minorities from opposite spectrums, each taking what the other extreme said and freaking out. Mike certainly didn't help the matter with his original comments, but people calling him a bigot and boycotting PAX are also (in my opinion) overreacting based on articles like this that get pageviews by fanning the fire.

Aloisius 13y ago
> * taking quotes from troll accounts and implying those views are the same as Mike Krahuliks Judging by the comments on the article page, those trolls are way too common. At some point if you're Mike Krahuliks, you have to ask yourself, why do I attract so many sociopaths? Frankly, if they are any indication of the attitudes of those who attend PAX, I wouldn't attend either.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Having attended every PAX on the west coast, I can safely say that taking the opinions of twitter trolls as a barometer for the culture of PAX is a grave mistake. It's a very welcoming community that generally looks down on trolls, misogyny, and sexism. Many people say that when they get to PAX they feel like they've finally come home. Many of the panels are chosen specifically to encourage a culture of acceptance. Just from this year, see: http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/hey-vasquez-you-ever-been-mistaken-for-a-man-a-discussion-of-military-servi http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/hey-vasquez-you-ever... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/everything-we-know-is-sexist.-now-what http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/everything-we-know-i... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/achieving-gender-diversity-in-gaming-ok-now-what http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/achieving-gender-div... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gays-in-love-with-their-rpgs http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gays-in-love-with-th... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/press-xy-presents-right-before-your-eyes-transitioning-within-a-game-commun http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/press-xy-presents-ri... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/you-game-like-a-girl-tales-of-trolls-white-knights http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/you-game-like-a-girl... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/political-correctness-in-gaming-lets-talk http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/political-correctnes... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/its-dangerous-to-go-alone-the-take-this-panel http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/its-dangerous-to-go-... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gender-diversity-in-games-where-are-all-the-believable-female-characters http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gender-diversity-in-...
anigbrowl 13y ago
From his response" So I had to think really hard about it and the only time I could remember really thinking he made a mistake was when he told us we had to pull the Dickwolves merch. I didn’t really get a chance to elaborate on why that was though, and unfortunately by not doing so it created a bit of a firestorm on the Internet. What does he mean he 'didn't get a chance'? He was being interviewed on stage, with his partner, by his business manager, at his own conference. I'm pretty sure he could have sat there and discussed it for an entire hour if he had felt so inclined, and it doesn't seem like the stage was in danger of being rushed by axe-wielding feminists or anything.
wonderzombie 13y ago
Hang on, learning from experiences? They talked about how they would've persisted with the offensive merchandise. How is greater insensitivity becoming a better person? I was happy to read his comments about trans stuff, but it seems to me that he's still a shoot first, ask questions later person. In fact what prompted the trans apology originally was more deliberately incendiary commentary. He's not a villain but I don't really see this as anything except a very slow process involving a cycle of deliberately offensive commentary followed by recrimination followed by apologies. It's just sad to see that in this case it seems he wasn't all that sorry after all. So what's next? Another "not sorry" response regarding trans folk? I would restate the first point as follows: the trolls have the same view as Mike/Gabe. And that particular view is that, what, social censure is censorship? It's not an uncommon view among the angry (predominantly white) male gamer crowd. @teamrape is just one particularly good example of a bunch of people organizing behind this principle.
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  I take back what I said about him not being sorry; I just had the chance to read this, and I think it's fair-ish. http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification I think pulling the merchandise might not have been good for PA as such, but I think it was better for the PA brand overall and as a peace offering. It demonstrated some amount of respect and contrition, in a very tangible way.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    This letter sums up the problems with this apology fairly well: http://makemeasammich.org/2013/09/05/dear-gabe-i-dont-hate-you-but-we-need-to-talk/ http://makemeasammich.org/2013/09/05/dear-gabe-i-dont-hate-y... It's hard to determine whether or not Krahulik wants to learn to be better. His apology says that the mistake was engagement, but really, the mistake was that when he found out he'd hurt people, his response was to rub it in. He doesn't seem to recognize that the problem wasn't that he produced a follow-up strip, but that the follow-up was deliberately hurtful. Maybe he's trying and he's just not there yet. Maybe he's just responding to the firestorm and doesn't really want to learn. I sure as hell can't tell the difference.

by pyrocat 13y ago

Aloisius 13y ago

> * taking quotes from troll accounts and implying those views are the same as Mike Krahuliks Judging by the comments on the article page, those trolls are way too common. At some point if you're Mike Krahuliks, you have to ask yourself, why do I attract so many sociopaths? Frankly, if they are any indication of the attitudes of those who attend PAX, I wouldn't attend either.

pyrocat 13y ago
Having attended every PAX on the west coast, I can safely say that taking the opinions of twitter trolls as a barometer for the culture of PAX is a grave mistake. It's a very welcoming community that generally looks down on trolls, misogyny, and sexism. Many people say that when they get to PAX they feel like they've finally come home. Many of the panels are chosen specifically to encourage a culture of acceptance. Just from this year, see: http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/hey-vasquez-you-ever-been-mistaken-for-a-man-a-discussion-of-military-servi http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/hey-vasquez-you-ever... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/everything-we-know-is-sexist.-now-what http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/everything-we-know-i... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/achieving-gender-diversity-in-gaming-ok-now-what http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/achieving-gender-div... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gays-in-love-with-their-rpgs http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gays-in-love-with-th... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/press-xy-presents-right-before-your-eyes-transitioning-within-a-game-commun http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/press-xy-presents-ri... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/you-game-like-a-girl-tales-of-trolls-white-knights http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/you-game-like-a-girl... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/political-correctness-in-gaming-lets-talk http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/political-correctnes... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/its-dangerous-to-go-alone-the-take-this-panel http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/its-dangerous-to-go-... http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gender-diversity-in-games-where-are-all-the-believable-female-characters http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/gender-diversity-in-...

anigbrowl 13y ago

From his response" So I had to think really hard about it and the only time I could remember really thinking he made a mistake was when he told us we had to pull the Dickwolves merch. I didn’t really get a chance to elaborate on why that was though, and unfortunately by not doing so it created a bit of a firestorm on the Internet. What does he mean he 'didn't get a chance'? He was being interviewed on stage, with his partner, by his business manager, at his own conference. I'm pretty sure he could have sat there and discussed it for an entire hour if he had felt so inclined, and it doesn't seem like the stage was in danger of being rushed by axe-wielding feminists or anything.

wonderzombie 13y ago

Hang on, learning from experiences? They talked about how they would've persisted with the offensive merchandise. How is greater insensitivity becoming a better person? I was happy to read his comments about trans stuff, but it seems to me that he's still a shoot first, ask questions later person. In fact what prompted the trans apology originally was more deliberately incendiary commentary. He's not a villain but I don't really see this as anything except a very slow process involving a cycle of deliberately offensive commentary followed by recrimination followed by apologies. It's just sad to see that in this case it seems he wasn't all that sorry after all. So what's next? Another "not sorry" response regarding trans folk? I would restate the first point as follows: the trolls have the same view as Mike/Gabe. And that particular view is that, what, social censure is censorship? It's not an uncommon view among the angry (predominantly white) male gamer crowd. @teamrape is just one particularly good example of a bunch of people organizing behind this principle.

wonderzombie 13y ago
I take back what I said about him not being sorry; I just had the chance to read this, and I think it's fair-ish. http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification http://penny-arcade.com/2013/09/04/some-clarification I think pulling the merchandise might not have been good for PA as such, but I think it was better for the PA brand overall and as a peace offering. It demonstrated some amount of respect and contrition, in a very tangible way.
- saraid216 13y ago
  This letter sums up the problems with this apology fairly well: http://makemeasammich.org/2013/09/05/dear-gabe-i-dont-hate-you-but-we-need-to-talk/ http://makemeasammich.org/2013/09/05/dear-gabe-i-dont-hate-y... It's hard to determine whether or not Krahulik wants to learn to be better. His apology says that the mistake was engagement, but really, the mistake was that when he found out he'd hurt people, his response was to rub it in. He doesn't seem to recognize that the problem wasn't that he produced a follow-up strip, but that the follow-up was deliberately hurtful. Maybe he's trying and he's just not there yet. Maybe he's just responding to the firestorm and doesn't really want to learn. I sure as hell can't tell the difference.