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Prediction: The much-anticipated convergence of Android and Chrome is near. These new Chrome apps are the programming model for the upcoming native Android web

Prediction: The much-anticipated convergence of Android and Chrome is near. These new Chrome apps are the programming model for the upcoming native Android webapps The next milestone I expect to see is V8 added alongside Dalvik as a first-class runtime for Android. Maybe in Android KitKat?

pspeter3 13y ago
That actually makes a lot of sense given their Android KitKat tagline which is "It's our goal with Android KitKat to make an amazing Android experience available for everybody." Google has used Play Services to update Android in the background. Since they also own Chrome, the more apps that live within Chrome the more apps are up to date and out of reach of other companies who would use Android for them, notably Amazon, Samsung and Facebook
- bsimpson 13y ago
  It also means that many of these apps won't be usable by anyone running Android pre-4.0. Chrome launched with GoogleTV on Android 3, and that version doesn't auto-update, so it won't get apps.
  - melling 13y ago
    Yeah, someone is always quick to point out that someone is going to left behind. It doesn't matter. Mobile hardware and software is evolving quite fast. There will be a billion 4.0+ devices in a couple of years. People that aren't interested in newer devices probably aren't as interested in apps either.
- teleclimber 13y ago
  That kitkat tagline could mean absolutely anything. It could be a kid-friendly set of features, or a more efficient OS so that cheap devices can run well so people in 3rd-world countries can have Android too. It could also mean cat-friendly interface with paw-sized touch targets.
untog 13y ago
I really hope so. Android's support for webapps has been dismal, which is very surprising given that Google pushes them so hard elsewhere.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
walexander 13y ago
I don't know if the convergence will happen, but they certainly need to fix WebView in Android to at least allow migration. It's still using the old Android Browser and is severely outdated (no WebSockets, etc). My guess is that Chrome Packaged apps will be the replacement for WebViews on Android. Anyone who wants a stop gap though, should check this out: https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview
- untog 13y ago
  A WebView in a native app always seemed like a really hacky way of doing it, so a proper Chrome App functionality would be fantastic. Just like how Firefox does it (even on Android, in the Aurora builds)
- jaxytee 13y ago
  From the ChromeView github page: "Attempting to scroll the view (by swiping a finger across the screen) does not update the displayed image. However, internally, the view is scrolled. This can be seen by displaying a stack of buttons and trying to click on the topmost one. This issue makes ChromeView mostly unusable in production" Have you used ChromeView successfully in a production application? This seems like a deal killer.
  - zenocon 13y ago
    I forked ChromeView, and then the more time I spent with the Chromium build and codebase, I realized the content shell was a better starting point, so I created a similar project that uses different chromium artifacts as a base: https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view; https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view; scrolling has no issues at all. There are a few quirks, and myself and a few other people are discovering them and finding ways around them -- since we all want to use Chromium for our various projects.
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  > Anyone who wants a stop gap though, should check this out: https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview A stop gap that adds at least 30mb to your application is a really shitty solution.
RivieraKid 13y ago
As an Android dev I can tell you this isn't happening in the next 5 years. They may add Chrome apps to Android, but it will be a niche option that won't be used by anybody. My utopic wish is a new open platform that will combine strengths of the web and of operating systems (Windows, Android): - Web: Great for documents, which it was originally designed for. Automatic updates. No installation. You can "fork" an app / document by middle clicking a link. - Operating systems: Great for apps. Speed. More low level access to the hardware. Much richer platform than the web (window mnagment, human interface guidelines, ...).
- untog 13y ago
  Why, as an Android dev, do you say that?
  - RivieraKid 13y ago
    Because, as an Android dev, I understand that both platforms have different strengths. Merge of the android and chrome/web platform, that would keep the strenths of both, is basically impossible. So the only possible scenario is making interative improvements to the chrome/web platform. But: 1) That would break backwards compatibility with Android apps. They would basically have to kill Android and replace it with Chrome OS Mobile. 2) Chrome OS platform is far, far behind Android (and operating systems in general) in many aspects.
    - untog 13y ago
      Merge of the android and chrome/web platform, that would keep the strenths of both, is basically impossible. Why do you say that? Add some APIs to the Android browser, allow it to open apps full-screen... there doesn't seem to be much more to it than that.
      - RivieraKid 13y ago
        They would basically need to recreate the Android API in the browser if they wanted Chrome apps to be as good as native Android apps. So Chrome OS would become a virtual machine emulating the Android platform. Right now, it's quite easy to package a web app into an Android app. But users generally dislike that.
devx 13y ago
Why? I'd rather see them push Android as a increasingly more mature OS alternative to Windows. And you'll be able to run Chrome on Android anyway. What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? The only major things I see ChromeOS has over Chrome for Android is the security model, which will be impossible in Android, since you need native apps, too, while ChromeOS will only ever work with "web apps". Changing that could mean its security model will suffer. And the second one is the upgrade process, for all Chromebooks, coming straight from Google, every few weeks. That's ideal, but I doubt we'll see anything like that for Android even this decade.
- teleclimber 13y ago
  > What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? Seriously. I don't get this knee-jerk desire to have ChromeOS and Android become some sort of weird hybrid. They're two different platforms. Their combination isn't necessarily greater than the sum of the parts.
  - Gormo 13y ago
    This applies to all of the talk of platform convergence in general, including what MS has been attempting with Windows. I just don't understand this desire to merge lots of different platforms and applications together. People must be playing too much Katamari Damacy or something.
pjmlp 13y ago
> The next milestone I expect to see is V8 added alongside Dalvik as a first-class runtime for Android. Maybe in Android KitKat? Something needs to change, since the Oracle lawsuit, Java/Dalvik features have been frozen without any new update being officially communicated.
- mythz 13y ago
  This maybe an option in the making: https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    This is actually the only place where I see a future for Dart.
    - mythz 13y ago
      I like Dart, it's the most productive language/environment I've ever used and if it's unable to gain any traction on its core objective building of client-side complex web apps, it will still have a compelling server-side story ala (node.js) after v1.0 is released and the ecosystem catches up with it.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. The only way Dart will have any future is if Google makes a requirement to use it somewhere.
        mythz 13y ago
        Having developed several server-side projects in Dart, the language/environment brings a hell of a lot to the table optimized for reducing complexity and improving productivity which: - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server The one thing it's notably lacking is a large ecosystem which I'm hoping will improve after v1.0's release.
notatoad 13y ago
according to theverge, that's exactly the plan: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696618/google-chrome-apps-chrome-os-windows-os-x-blink http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696618/google-chrome-apps-... although in that article, they also claim chrome apps are going to come to iOS including availablity in the iOS app store, which sounds really really unlikely.
- RandallBrown 13y ago
  I don't think it's any different than what you would do with a tool like PhoneGap.
  - scholia 13y ago
    Exactly...
michaelwww 13y ago
It will be interesting to see where the Dart VM fits into this.
DominikR 13y ago
This would be a strange step considering that Google spent so much time, energy and money to convince developers to use a very specific design language and application flow to give users a unified experience of Android across many apps. If they would do this we'd have a new set of apps that behaved and felt very differently which would probably cause a lot of confusion among users. What I could imagine is some kind of framework that makes it easier to share data and state between a Chrome app on the desktop and Android apps on mobile.
joseph_cooney 13y ago
Maybe Dalvik will compile down to run on top of ChromeOS.
lttlrck 13y ago
What about Dart? It might play a role here, it's not likely to go far outside the Google ecosystem and I'm not convinced Google ever thought otherwise.
dalek_cannes 13y ago
Prediction: Chrome (the browser) is slowly taking over your OS. P.S. while trying to add this new type of app, I was tricked into signing into my chrome account, which I had managed to avoid all this time.
- josteink 13y ago
  So another hook for always positively identifying Google's always listening data-collection network. I've started jumping the Google ecosystem. I'm now more often than not, not signed into a Google-account, to the point where I can go a week without signing in at all. No way I'm joining a program which requires me to reverse on that.

pspeter3 13y ago

That actually makes a lot of sense given their Android KitKat tagline which is "It's our goal with Android KitKat to make an amazing Android experience available for everybody." Google has used Play Services to update Android in the background. Since they also own Chrome, the more apps that live within Chrome the more apps are up to date and out of reach of other companies who would use Android for them, notably Amazon, Samsung and Facebook

bsimpson 13y ago
It also means that many of these apps won't be usable by anyone running Android pre-4.0. Chrome launched with GoogleTV on Android 3, and that version doesn't auto-update, so it won't get apps.
- melling 13y ago
  Yeah, someone is always quick to point out that someone is going to left behind. It doesn't matter. Mobile hardware and software is evolving quite fast. There will be a billion 4.0+ devices in a couple of years. People that aren't interested in newer devices probably aren't as interested in apps either.
teleclimber 13y ago
That kitkat tagline could mean absolutely anything. It could be a kid-friendly set of features, or a more efficient OS so that cheap devices can run well so people in 3rd-world countries can have Android too. It could also mean cat-friendly interface with paw-sized touch targets.

untog 13y ago

I really hope so. Android's support for webapps has been dismal, which is very surprising given that Google pushes them so hard elsewhere.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

walexander 13y ago

I don't know if the convergence will happen, but they certainly need to fix WebView in Android to at least allow migration. It's still using the old Android Browser and is severely outdated (no WebSockets, etc). My guess is that Chrome Packaged apps will be the replacement for WebViews on Android. Anyone who wants a stop gap though, should check this out: https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview

untog 13y ago
A WebView in a native app always seemed like a really hacky way of doing it, so a proper Chrome App functionality would be fantastic. Just like how Firefox does it (even on Android, in the Aurora builds)
jaxytee 13y ago
From the ChromeView github page: "Attempting to scroll the view (by swiping a finger across the screen) does not update the displayed image. However, internally, the view is scrolled. This can be seen by displaying a stack of buttons and trying to click on the topmost one. This issue makes ChromeView mostly unusable in production" Have you used ChromeView successfully in a production application? This seems like a deal killer.
- zenocon 13y ago
  I forked ChromeView, and then the more time I spent with the Chromium build and codebase, I realized the content shell was a better starting point, so I created a similar project that uses different chromium artifacts as a base: https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view; https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view; scrolling has no issues at all. There are a few quirks, and myself and a few other people are discovering them and finding ways around them -- since we all want to use Chromium for our various projects.
kllrnohj 13y ago
> Anyone who wants a stop gap though, should check this out: https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview A stop gap that adds at least 30mb to your application is a really shitty solution.

RivieraKid 13y ago

As an Android dev I can tell you this isn't happening in the next 5 years. They may add Chrome apps to Android, but it will be a niche option that won't be used by anybody. My utopic wish is a new open platform that will combine strengths of the web and of operating systems (Windows, Android): - Web: Great for documents, which it was originally designed for. Automatic updates. No installation. You can "fork" an app / document by middle clicking a link. - Operating systems: Great for apps. Speed. More low level access to the hardware. Much richer platform than the web (window mnagment, human interface guidelines, ...).

untog 13y ago
Why, as an Android dev, do you say that?
- RivieraKid 13y ago
  Because, as an Android dev, I understand that both platforms have different strengths. Merge of the android and chrome/web platform, that would keep the strenths of both, is basically impossible. So the only possible scenario is making interative improvements to the chrome/web platform. But: 1) That would break backwards compatibility with Android apps. They would basically have to kill Android and replace it with Chrome OS Mobile. 2) Chrome OS platform is far, far behind Android (and operating systems in general) in many aspects.
  - untog 13y ago
    Merge of the android and chrome/web platform, that would keep the strenths of both, is basically impossible. Why do you say that? Add some APIs to the Android browser, allow it to open apps full-screen... there doesn't seem to be much more to it than that.
    - RivieraKid 13y ago
      They would basically need to recreate the Android API in the browser if they wanted Chrome apps to be as good as native Android apps. So Chrome OS would become a virtual machine emulating the Android platform. Right now, it's quite easy to package a web app into an Android app. But users generally dislike that.

devx 13y ago

Why? I'd rather see them push Android as a increasingly more mature OS alternative to Windows. And you'll be able to run Chrome on Android anyway. What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? The only major things I see ChromeOS has over Chrome for Android is the security model, which will be impossible in Android, since you need native apps, too, while ChromeOS will only ever work with "web apps". Changing that could mean its security model will suffer. And the second one is the upgrade process, for all Chromebooks, coming straight from Google, every few weeks. That's ideal, but I doubt we'll see anything like that for Android even this decade.

teleclimber 13y ago
> What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? Seriously. I don't get this knee-jerk desire to have ChromeOS and Android become some sort of weird hybrid. They're two different platforms. Their combination isn't necessarily greater than the sum of the parts.
- Gormo 13y ago
  This applies to all of the talk of platform convergence in general, including what MS has been attempting with Windows. I just don't understand this desire to merge lots of different platforms and applications together. People must be playing too much Katamari Damacy or something.

pjmlp 13y ago

> The next milestone I expect to see is V8 added alongside Dalvik as a first-class runtime for Android. Maybe in Android KitKat? Something needs to change, since the Oracle lawsuit, Java/Dalvik features have been frozen without any new update being officially communicated.

mythz 13y ago
This maybe an option in the making: https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android
- pjmlp 13y ago
  This is actually the only place where I see a future for Dart.
  - mythz 13y ago
    I like Dart, it's the most productive language/environment I've ever used and if it's unable to gain any traction on its core objective building of client-side complex web apps, it will still have a compelling server-side story ala (node.js) after v1.0 is released and the ecosystem catches up with it.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Server side is already too crowded, there is nothing that Dart brings to the table. The only way Dart will have any future is if Google makes a requirement to use it somewhere.
      - mythz 13y ago
        Having developed several server-side projects in Dart, the language/environment brings a hell of a lot to the table optimized for reducing complexity and improving productivity which: - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) - Provides faster run-time performance, that's predictable and can take advantage of real integers and SIMD instructions (VM Only) - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) - Provides a new powerful way to develop client apps with Web UI (Polymer/WebComponents) offering unprecedented levels of encapsulation and reusability - Provides optimal dev and deployment options, you never have to worry about choosing the smallest libs as tree-shaking ensures only code used is compiled and minified - Providing "full-stack" dev environment, e.g. same language on client and server The one thing it's notably lacking is a large ecosystem which I'm hoping will improve after v1.0's release.

notatoad 13y ago

according to theverge, that's exactly the plan: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696618/google-chrome-apps-chrome-os-windows-os-x-blink http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696618/google-chrome-apps-... although in that article, they also claim chrome apps are going to come to iOS including availablity in the iOS app store, which sounds really really unlikely.

RandallBrown 13y ago
I don't think it's any different than what you would do with a tool like PhoneGap.
- scholia 13y ago
  Exactly...

michaelwww 13y ago

It will be interesting to see where the Dart VM fits into this.

DominikR 13y ago

This would be a strange step considering that Google spent so much time, energy and money to convince developers to use a very specific design language and application flow to give users a unified experience of Android across many apps. If they would do this we'd have a new set of apps that behaved and felt very differently which would probably cause a lot of confusion among users. What I could imagine is some kind of framework that makes it easier to share data and state between a Chrome app on the desktop and Android apps on mobile.

joseph_cooney 13y ago

Maybe Dalvik will compile down to run on top of ChromeOS.

lttlrck 13y ago

What about Dart? It might play a role here, it's not likely to go far outside the Google ecosystem and I'm not convinced Google ever thought otherwise.

dalek_cannes 13y ago

Prediction: Chrome (the browser) is slowly taking over your OS. P.S. while trying to add this new type of app, I was tricked into signing into my chrome account, which I had managed to avoid all this time.

josteink 13y ago
So another hook for always positively identifying Google's always listening data-collection network. I've started jumping the Google ecosystem. I'm now more often than not, not signed into a Google-account, to the point where I can go a week without signing in at all. No way I'm joining a program which requires me to reverse on that.