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The issue with PayPal is not that they take steps to insulate themselves from fraud and chargebacks. The issue is that their process for doing so is unilateral

The issue with PayPal is not that they take steps to insulate themselves from fraud and chargebacks. The issue is that their process for doing so is unilateral and -- as is well-documented -- offers essentially no options for resolution unless you are lucky enough to be able to bring significant media pressure to bear on them. That is a problem. Unfortunately, I think the only solution is to encourage people to basically sue PayPal at the drop of a hat. PayPal has the most abysmal processes in the world because those processes are cheap; if those processes become expensive (because people run to a courtroom every time PayPal freezes so much as ten cents), then and only then will PayPal change the processes.

jlgaddis 13y ago
> ... encourage people to basically sue PayPal at the drop of a hat. I haven't looked at the PayPal ToS/EULA/whatever in quite a long while, but I imagine that you must agree not to do exactly that in order to use the PayPal service.
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  So include arguments against whatever clause in the ToS in your filing. Even if it takes their lawyer five minutes to write a response to that, five minutes of a corporate lawyer is usually more expensive than a full day of a CSR's time, which achieves the goal.
- pjc50 13y ago
  In sensible jurisdictions you can't sign away your rights like that, although you may pre-agree to binding arbitration or a particular jurisdiction. However, I've not heard of someone successfully suing paypal, even in the small claims court :(
anigbrowl 13y ago
But conversely, the processes are abysmal* because Paypal is cheap. If you want to be given first-class treatment and have your hand held every step of the way, then I'm sure there are plenty of firms that would be willing to do that...in exchange for 10-15% commissions. * I think they're annoying but not abysmal. 90% of the tantrums I see on HN about Paypal involve a lack of preparation on the part of the counterparty.

jlgaddis 13y ago

> ... encourage people to basically sue PayPal at the drop of a hat. I haven't looked at the PayPal ToS/EULA/whatever in quite a long while, but I imagine that you must agree not to do exactly that in order to use the PayPal service.

ubernostrum 13y ago
So include arguments against whatever clause in the ToS in your filing. Even if it takes their lawyer five minutes to write a response to that, five minutes of a corporate lawyer is usually more expensive than a full day of a CSR's time, which achieves the goal.
pjc50 13y ago
In sensible jurisdictions you can't sign away your rights like that, although you may pre-agree to binding arbitration or a particular jurisdiction. However, I've not heard of someone successfully suing paypal, even in the small claims court :(

anigbrowl 13y ago

But conversely, the processes are abysmal* because Paypal is cheap. If you want to be given first-class treatment and have your hand held every step of the way, then I'm sure there are plenty of firms that would be willing to do that...in exchange for 10-15% commissions. * I think they're annoying but not abysmal. 90% of the tantrums I see on HN about Paypal involve a lack of preparation on the part of the counterparty.