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I completely agree with this. Building HTML5 games - and you can get competitive levels of graphics and so on - is a great way to be able to target the Apple,

I completely agree with this. Building HTML5 games - and you can get competitive levels of graphics and so on - is a great way to be able to target the Apple, Android and even the Chrome store. You can easily make a shim that launches a WebView window. It also allows for playing online as said. WebWorkers, however annoying to debug, raise an interesting speed-bump to cheating too. Here's a WebWorker wrapper script that lets you run (a single) WebWorker in-process instead, for debuggability: https://github.com/williame/ludum_dare_27_snowden/blob/gh-pages/web_worker.js https://github.com/williame/ludum_dare_27_snowden/blob/gh-pa... With the new Audio API and webRTC, plus the WebSockets, things are bright.

pjmlp 13y ago
Except most games look worse than Amiga and Atari ST games.
Kiro 13y ago
How do people use Web Workers to prevent cheating? I would love to read more about it.
- willvarfar 13y ago
  Browsers run web workers in sandboxes and even normal debuggers built into browsers have no visibility into them; this means fiddling around at the JavaScript console is blind of any state you have in them e.g. a procedurally generated world. A determined attacker can debug the browser itself, or try and rewrite your app to not use web workers, of course... Its just a speedbump. Its still client side. I use them - and try and work out how to debug them - for performance smoothness reasons though. They are worth more for that imo and anti cheating is very much a secondary thing. Me getting down voted elsewhere for this opinion this week: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1lnnvm/making_an_indie_desktop_game_part_i/cc10og6 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1lnnvm/making_a...
  - brianpgordon 13y ago
    You can still use traditional debugging tools to change values (score, etc) in memory directly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine
  - thorum 13y ago
    I wonder if Firebug & other tools will eventually support debugging web workers, making this usefulness against cheating a temporary thing.
    - willvarfar 13y ago
      Yeah they soon will. Chrome is slightly ahead already. I wish I hadn't said it noe; it was on the top of my mind, was all. The much maligned web sockets are actually useful for keeping the game loop light; I even generate meshes in them.

pjmlp 13y ago

Except most games look worse than Amiga and Atari ST games.

Kiro 13y ago

How do people use Web Workers to prevent cheating? I would love to read more about it.

willvarfar 13y ago
Browsers run web workers in sandboxes and even normal debuggers built into browsers have no visibility into them; this means fiddling around at the JavaScript console is blind of any state you have in them e.g. a procedurally generated world. A determined attacker can debug the browser itself, or try and rewrite your app to not use web workers, of course... Its just a speedbump. Its still client side. I use them - and try and work out how to debug them - for performance smoothness reasons though. They are worth more for that imo and anti cheating is very much a secondary thing. Me getting down voted elsewhere for this opinion this week: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1lnnvm/making_an_indie_desktop_game_part_i/cc10og6 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1lnnvm/making_a...
- brianpgordon 13y ago
  You can still use traditional debugging tools to change values (score, etc) in memory directly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine
- thorum 13y ago
  I wonder if Firebug & other tools will eventually support debugging web workers, making this usefulness against cheating a temporary thing.
  - willvarfar 13y ago
    Yeah they soon will. Chrome is slightly ahead already. I wish I hadn't said it noe; it was on the top of my mind, was all. The much maligned web sockets are actually useful for keeping the game loop light; I even generate meshes in them.