4 ms·

That's a bullshit way of phrasing it. Let's stick to how I said it. What matters is that you end up with the right thing. If you can easily get the right thing

That's a bullshit way of phrasing it. Let's stick to how I said it. What matters is that you end up with the right thing. If you can easily get the right thing by copying somebody else, then do that. That doesn't excuse your not learning how to do it on your own, but there's no nobility to finding out the answer yourself, beyond what personal satisfaction it brings you. I code using other people's languages and other people's plug-ins. I take visual ideas from other people's graphic designs. Then I bend them to fit my own purposes. When somebody else has solved part of the problem I want to fix, there is no honor in my repeating their work.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago
There's no honor in taking someone else's hard work and passing it off as your own. Looking at someone else's website for visual inspiration is a far cry from copying someone else's paper or having a friend do your math homework. Please tell me you see the difference.
- Locke1689 17y ago
  "Cheating" does not necessarily mean taking someone else's work. I have cheated before by taking my own work (usually equations and the like) into exams in which I was not supposed to have them. This is technically "cheating," but what it really came down to was that I didn't want to spend hours memorizing information I would only use on one test and then immediately forget.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    If you don't like the way a teacher or a school runs things, then don't cheat. Vote with your feet. Requiring students to memorize has as much to do with the logistics of testing as it does with learning. If you think the school is being lazy and making it easier for them to test at the expense of substantive (non-rote) learning, then why go there? Even if this is high school, there are still choices. There are people who have gotten into the Ivies with a GED. If you are the right kind of person, you will do substantive work, be recognized and succeed. You can add the drop out, get a GED and do volunteer work step to this plan: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/1/24/11657/1141 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/1/24/11657/1141 If most people voted with their feet, then schools would get a lot better, fast. Instead, people cheat, which enables the schools to keep up their appearances. You're just as guilty of propagating the paper-reality of testing over actual learning.
    - asciilifeform 17y ago
      > If most people voted with their feet, then schools would get a lot better You might as well campaign for a general strike. "Vote with your feet" is the age-old leper's bell of market fundamentalists, who deny the reality of tough collective-action problems. I wish there were some way to confiscate your diploma and force you to live the life of an average high school dropout. But of course, you surely believe that you are exceptional, destined from birth to live out a rags-to-riches tale no matter what. I would like to see just how far your GED and volunteer work would get you. > you will do substantive work, be recognized and succeed What reason is there to believe this? As far as American middle-class society is concerned, someone without a high-school diploma is a non-person.
hollerith 17y ago
What you wrote is mostly just rationalization, in my humble opinion.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

There's no honor in taking someone else's hard work and passing it off as your own. Looking at someone else's website for visual inspiration is a far cry from copying someone else's paper or having a friend do your math homework. Please tell me you see the difference.

Locke1689 17y ago
"Cheating" does not necessarily mean taking someone else's work. I have cheated before by taking my own work (usually equations and the like) into exams in which I was not supposed to have them. This is technically "cheating," but what it really came down to was that I didn't want to spend hours memorizing information I would only use on one test and then immediately forget.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  If you don't like the way a teacher or a school runs things, then don't cheat. Vote with your feet. Requiring students to memorize has as much to do with the logistics of testing as it does with learning. If you think the school is being lazy and making it easier for them to test at the expense of substantive (non-rote) learning, then why go there? Even if this is high school, there are still choices. There are people who have gotten into the Ivies with a GED. If you are the right kind of person, you will do substantive work, be recognized and succeed. You can add the drop out, get a GED and do volunteer work step to this plan: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/1/24/11657/1141 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/1/24/11657/1141 If most people voted with their feet, then schools would get a lot better, fast. Instead, people cheat, which enables the schools to keep up their appearances. You're just as guilty of propagating the paper-reality of testing over actual learning.
  - asciilifeform 17y ago
    > If most people voted with their feet, then schools would get a lot better You might as well campaign for a general strike. "Vote with your feet" is the age-old leper's bell of market fundamentalists, who deny the reality of tough collective-action problems. I wish there were some way to confiscate your diploma and force you to live the life of an average high school dropout. But of course, you surely believe that you are exceptional, destined from birth to live out a rags-to-riches tale no matter what. I would like to see just how far your GED and volunteer work would get you. > you will do substantive work, be recognized and succeed What reason is there to believe this? As far as American middle-class society is concerned, someone without a high-school diploma is a non-person.

hollerith 17y ago

What you wrote is mostly just rationalization, in my humble opinion.