11 ms·

People can get tired of other people telling this, but really, they should use Bitcoin. There are several advantages of this: accountability (you can verify wit

by M4v3R 13y ago

People can get tired of other people telling this, but really, they should use Bitcoin. There are several advantages of this: accountability (you can verify with the block chain that they really received your payment), ease of use (utilizing 3rd parties like Coinbase, BitPay and others you don't really have to know how Bitcoin works to pay with them) and most importantly - irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. PS. They accept Bitcoin donations (not in the indiegogo campaign, just independently) and already raised 52.44 BTC which roughly translates to 5244 EUR. Not bad if you ask me for a payment channel that's not actively advertised by them.

annnnd 13y ago
Of course you also have about zero privacy with bitcoin (by design), but who cares about that, right?
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Just like everything else.
  - annnnd 13y ago
    Not really - can USA spy on credit cards issued by Chinese banks? And vice-versa? There is at least some level of privacy. But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases.
    - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
      If it's a Visa or MasterCard, yes the US Gov can spy on it. If it isn't, you can't use it to pay Mailpile- so it's irreverent.
    - M4v3R 13y ago
      That's only true if one has access to data at every point in the block chain. If at some point coins go to a private person or company that didn't advertise their address anywhere you're lost. There's no way to know who own a Bitcoin address if it's not part of any online service/exchange and was funded by someone else.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      The US surely can spy on Chinese CC transactions that occur in, or where the tx data passes through a friendly locale. There is a decent chance for them to be able to get CC tx data from within China as well.
    - pantaril 13y ago
      >But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases. This is simply not true. If i make my first purchuase using address A and my second purchuase using address B, how can they be linked together?
- M4v3R 13y ago
  Bitcoin is a protocol that gives you as much privacy as you want. You can use one-time addresses both for sending and receiving, which gives you more privacy than using Paypal or credit cards directly.
Samuel_Michon 13y ago
> irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. Unless I receive the goods before paying, I would never buy anything with Bitcoin online. There’s no buyer or fraud protection whatsoever. I don’t understand how any legitimate merchant would be alright with that. If a merchant would only accept Bitcoin, that would come across just as sketchy as a merchant who wants me to mail him a cashier’s check – never gonna happen.
- MacsHeadroom 13y ago
  Merchants have a reputation to keep. Most people will trust a merchant who has proved themselves trustworthy. Merchants who haven't built trust will be forced to use a trusted escrow service, of which there are many. There are more than enough options for buyer protection with Bitcoin. The good thing is that they're all optional. Buyer protection is a trade off. Sometimes it is unnecessary. But with card companies and businesses like PayPal, merchants don't get a choice. They're liable for charge-backs for 90days and for having their accounts frozen indefinitely. MailPile has already received over $6000 in Bitcoins, by the way. It is their only donation received which is currently liquid. See https://blockchain.info/address/13z55AGS14pSPiPpMqAAFHb576tSmSmR77 https://blockchain.info/address/13z55AGS14pSPiPpMqAAFHb576tS...
- contextual 13y ago
  Out of the half dozen times I've purchased with bitcoins, I was ripped off every single time. I stopped using it. I'm a supporter of bitcoins and want it to succeed, I just don't trust a lot of the vendors that use it.
  - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
    What were you buying? Out of the dozens of times I've purchased with Bitcoins I have never been ripped off. Buy from reputable companies or use an escrow service. A homeless guy asked me for my car keys the other day. He said he'd clean the inside of my car and bring me the keys. I didn't give him my keys. Something tells me you would have.
BitMastro 13y ago
There is something I don't understand about Bitcoin: right now there is a lot of instability in the exchange rate of Bitcoin and everyday currency like dollars, euros, or pounds, from the graph I checked from here[1]. How can it be a viable alternative, when its value can change by 40% in a month? Gaining or losing value is not important (if it's increasing value, I have to delay exchanging to dollars as much as possible thus withholding funds), but as long as a vast majority of the population is not using it to pay or get paid, it poses a serious problem to its adoption. The only solutions I can think of are: either it becomes stable, and so everyday people can exchange other currencies in Bitcoin, or people get paid in Bitcoin by employers, so they can spend it whenever they want, but neither of them look like they're going to happen soon. Am I wrong in my analysis? I'm not an expert in finance so maybe I might have missed something. [1] http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxEUR http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxEUR
- derefr 13y ago
  Just don't keep BTC. I'm surprised the default method of using bitcoins isn't "I give send USD to my transfer agent, they make a BTC transfer to your transfer agent, and your transfer agent immediately deposits USD in your account", with the entire process occuring with a defined instantaneous exchange rate.
  - BitMastro 13y ago
    That's interesting! But isn't there any delay between currency exchange and an exchange fee as well?
    - derefr 13y ago
      Yes, I imagine that, like with Paypal, the sender would be responsible for eating both exchange fees. The delay, on the other hand, would impose price volatility that would likely be equal in both directions--so as long as the transfer-agents formed a network with an agreement that the receiving agent smoothed over both all losses and all gains during transfer, there should be net zero liability (they'd just need some float.)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
hackula1 13y ago
I will accept goats and chickens before I accept Bitcoin. 99% of people have never even heard of it. I am pretty certain that 100% of my customers have never heard of it. Not worth my time.
- jafaku 13y ago
  Yeah, you can probably multiply your savings x10 every year by yourself anyway, no need to use a revolutionary currency for that. http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=1&address= http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&show...
  - Ecio78 13y ago
    He is talking about using that currency as a way of being paid (= running his business), not for investing neither for speculating. N.B. maybe I'm wrong but according to this graph: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25 http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g... http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price Now bitcoin has half the value than in April (and, I known, 10x Jan value). Too volatile to use if your business IMHO.
    - jafaku 13y ago
      Like it has been said a gazillion times already, you can get paid in USD if you want to (using Bitcoin behind the scenes). You get the same benefits as a merchant (no chargebacks, easy implementation, ridiculously small fees, countries: All), and without the annoying x10 yearly gains.
      - Ecio78 13y ago
        That's probably what you should have said in the first post (benefits as a merchant) and not implying he was dumb because it was missing those fabulous gains
  - 13y ago
rmc 13y ago
irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. irreversibility is good for the merchant, and bad for the customer.

by M4v3R 13y ago

annnnd 13y ago

Of course you also have about zero privacy with bitcoin (by design), but who cares about that, right?

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Just like everything else.
- annnnd 13y ago
  Not really - can USA spy on credit cards issued by Chinese banks? And vice-versa? There is at least some level of privacy. But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases.
  - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
    If it's a Visa or MasterCard, yes the US Gov can spy on it. If it isn't, you can't use it to pay Mailpile- so it's irreverent.
  - M4v3R 13y ago
    That's only true if one has access to data at every point in the block chain. If at some point coins go to a private person or company that didn't advertise their address anywhere you're lost. There's no way to know who own a Bitcoin address if it's not part of any online service/exchange and was funded by someone else.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    The US surely can spy on Chinese CC transactions that occur in, or where the tx data passes through a friendly locale. There is a decent chance for them to be able to get CC tx data from within China as well.
  - pantaril 13y ago
    >But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases. This is simply not true. If i make my first purchuase using address A and my second purchuase using address B, how can they be linked together?
M4v3R 13y ago
Bitcoin is a protocol that gives you as much privacy as you want. You can use one-time addresses both for sending and receiving, which gives you more privacy than using Paypal or credit cards directly.

Samuel_Michon 13y ago

> irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. Unless I receive the goods before paying, I would never buy anything with Bitcoin online. There’s no buyer or fraud protection whatsoever. I don’t understand how any legitimate merchant would be alright with that. If a merchant would only accept Bitcoin, that would come across just as sketchy as a merchant who wants me to mail him a cashier’s check – never gonna happen.

MacsHeadroom 13y ago
Merchants have a reputation to keep. Most people will trust a merchant who has proved themselves trustworthy. Merchants who haven't built trust will be forced to use a trusted escrow service, of which there are many. There are more than enough options for buyer protection with Bitcoin. The good thing is that they're all optional. Buyer protection is a trade off. Sometimes it is unnecessary. But with card companies and businesses like PayPal, merchants don't get a choice. They're liable for charge-backs for 90days and for having their accounts frozen indefinitely. MailPile has already received over $6000 in Bitcoins, by the way. It is their only donation received which is currently liquid. See https://blockchain.info/address/13z55AGS14pSPiPpMqAAFHb576tSmSmR77 https://blockchain.info/address/13z55AGS14pSPiPpMqAAFHb576tS...
contextual 13y ago
Out of the half dozen times I've purchased with bitcoins, I was ripped off every single time. I stopped using it. I'm a supporter of bitcoins and want it to succeed, I just don't trust a lot of the vendors that use it.
- MacsHeadroom 13y ago
  What were you buying? Out of the dozens of times I've purchased with Bitcoins I have never been ripped off. Buy from reputable companies or use an escrow service. A homeless guy asked me for my car keys the other day. He said he'd clean the inside of my car and bring me the keys. I didn't give him my keys. Something tells me you would have.

BitMastro 13y ago

There is something I don't understand about Bitcoin: right now there is a lot of instability in the exchange rate of Bitcoin and everyday currency like dollars, euros, or pounds, from the graph I checked from here[1]. How can it be a viable alternative, when its value can change by 40% in a month? Gaining or losing value is not important (if it's increasing value, I have to delay exchanging to dollars as much as possible thus withholding funds), but as long as a vast majority of the population is not using it to pay or get paid, it poses a serious problem to its adoption. The only solutions I can think of are: either it becomes stable, and so everyday people can exchange other currencies in Bitcoin, or people get paid in Bitcoin by employers, so they can spend it whenever they want, but neither of them look like they're going to happen soon. Am I wrong in my analysis? I'm not an expert in finance so maybe I might have missed something. [1] http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxEUR http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxEUR

derefr 13y ago
Just don't keep BTC. I'm surprised the default method of using bitcoins isn't "I give send USD to my transfer agent, they make a BTC transfer to your transfer agent, and your transfer agent immediately deposits USD in your account", with the entire process occuring with a defined instantaneous exchange rate.
- BitMastro 13y ago
  That's interesting! But isn't there any delay between currency exchange and an exchange fee as well?
  - derefr 13y ago
    Yes, I imagine that, like with Paypal, the sender would be responsible for eating both exchange fees. The delay, on the other hand, would impose price volatility that would likely be equal in both directions--so as long as the transfer-agents formed a network with an agreement that the receiving agent smoothed over both all losses and all gains during transfer, there should be net zero liability (they'd just need some float.)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

hackula1 13y ago

I will accept goats and chickens before I accept Bitcoin. 99% of people have never even heard of it. I am pretty certain that 100% of my customers have never heard of it. Not worth my time.

jafaku 13y ago
Yeah, you can probably multiply your savings x10 every year by yourself anyway, no need to use a revolutionary currency for that. http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=1&address= http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&show...
- Ecio78 13y ago
  He is talking about using that currency as a way of being paid (= running his business), not for investing neither for speculating. N.B. maybe I'm wrong but according to this graph: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25 http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g... http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price Now bitcoin has half the value than in April (and, I known, 10x Jan value). Too volatile to use if your business IMHO.
  - jafaku 13y ago
    Like it has been said a gazillion times already, you can get paid in USD if you want to (using Bitcoin behind the scenes). You get the same benefits as a merchant (no chargebacks, easy implementation, ridiculously small fees, countries: All), and without the annoying x10 yearly gains.
    - Ecio78 13y ago
      That's probably what you should have said in the first post (benefits as a merchant) and not implying he was dumb because it was missing those fabulous gains
- 13y ago

rmc 13y ago

irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. irreversibility is good for the merchant, and bad for the customer.