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Note that they had previously stated that they wanted to release the funds as slowly as possible. Asking us to provide a detailed budget is basically asking us

Note that they had previously stated that they wanted to release the funds as slowly as possible. Asking us to provide a detailed budget is basically asking us to justify that and give them a timetable so they can withhold the maximum amount of cash for the maximum amount of time.

mootothemax 13y ago
Note that they had previously stated that they wanted to release the funds as slowly as possible. Asking us to provide a detailed budget is basically asking us to justify that None of this contradicts my point about mitigating risk, nor that it's a Very Good Idea to have even the most basic of development roadmaps.
- HerraBRE 13y ago
  Sure, but we have no reason to give those details to PayPal, and very good reasons not to. Edit: Delaying payments by months is not acceptable or reasonable. There are tax implications (we have to deal with multiple jurisdictions) and opportunity costs. Also, this very obviously goes against the wishes of our community of backers - they are supporting a free software development project, not buying a product.
  - mootothemax 13y ago
    Sure, but we have no reason to give those details to PayPal You'll reduce your risk profile, and increase your chances of receiving payment inside the next year. and very good reasons not to Aside from potentially delayed payouts, what are your other good reasons? Edit, replying to your edit: Our community of backers... are supporting a free software development project, not buying a product Do you know for a fact that all of your backers 100% understand the difference? Do you also know for 100% that you will receive no complaints, no refund requests, and no chargebacks in the event that you don't deliver?
    - kalms 13y ago
      I see your point. PayPal is a business partner in this setup, and they are shouldering a lot of risk on the developers behalf. I can understand not wanting to share something as intimate as a business/developement plan, but PayPal is within their rights, boty legally and morally, to ask for one. If the developers are having trouble with this, they should find another partner for their venture. (imho) That said, PayPal can be real douchebags. Too many friends, business partners and colleagues has been burnt by them in the past. If you're doing something nonprofit, move elsewhere.
      - Xylakant 13y ago
        > but PayPal is within their rights, boty legally and morally No and no. They're a payment provider, a utility, not a partner. They could have stated up front that they want a business plan or could have denied acting as payment provider. They could have demanded the backers to waive their refund rights. I'd even be on their side if they kept a percentage of the funds as security. The backers have a moral right to see a business plan, if any person at all has one. It's their money and they did not give it to paypal so that paypal can collect interest on it, they gave it to mailpile and they collectively are shouldering a much bigger risk than paypal in that transaction.
        jasonlotito 13y ago
        > they collectively are shouldering a much bigger risk than paypal in that transaction. No, they are not. Financially, PayPal is the one shouldering the biggest risk. Edit: > No and no. They're a payment provider, They most likely have legal obligations in various jurisdictions and with the credit card providers to do due diligence. And looking at business plans and how payments like this will be used is an important part of that. Try getting the same funding directly from a bank rather than going through a middleman and see what they ask for. Every time a PayPal story comes up, I'm always reading at how the people are innocent and everything is fine, and yet, they are doing something shady. Here you have an organization that's effectively asking for donations to support a project, but it's not, from what I can tell, certified as a non-profit. So suddenly yes, that does become high risk. Any banker in the world is going to look at this scenario and know that it's high risk.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - ballard 13y ago
    I support your position. This is like a bad investor trying to type on your keyboard and criticize your bikeshed's color. Paypal needs to MTOB.
scrabble 13y ago
When this happens, does PayPal provide interest on the funds that they withhold?

mootothemax 13y ago

Note that they had previously stated that they wanted to release the funds as slowly as possible. Asking us to provide a detailed budget is basically asking us to justify that None of this contradicts my point about mitigating risk, nor that it's a Very Good Idea to have even the most basic of development roadmaps.

HerraBRE 13y ago
Sure, but we have no reason to give those details to PayPal, and very good reasons not to. Edit: Delaying payments by months is not acceptable or reasonable. There are tax implications (we have to deal with multiple jurisdictions) and opportunity costs. Also, this very obviously goes against the wishes of our community of backers - they are supporting a free software development project, not buying a product.
- mootothemax 13y ago
  Sure, but we have no reason to give those details to PayPal You'll reduce your risk profile, and increase your chances of receiving payment inside the next year. and very good reasons not to Aside from potentially delayed payouts, what are your other good reasons? Edit, replying to your edit: Our community of backers... are supporting a free software development project, not buying a product Do you know for a fact that all of your backers 100% understand the difference? Do you also know for 100% that you will receive no complaints, no refund requests, and no chargebacks in the event that you don't deliver?
  - kalms 13y ago
    I see your point. PayPal is a business partner in this setup, and they are shouldering a lot of risk on the developers behalf. I can understand not wanting to share something as intimate as a business/developement plan, but PayPal is within their rights, boty legally and morally, to ask for one. If the developers are having trouble with this, they should find another partner for their venture. (imho) That said, PayPal can be real douchebags. Too many friends, business partners and colleagues has been burnt by them in the past. If you're doing something nonprofit, move elsewhere.
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      > but PayPal is within their rights, boty legally and morally No and no. They're a payment provider, a utility, not a partner. They could have stated up front that they want a business plan or could have denied acting as payment provider. They could have demanded the backers to waive their refund rights. I'd even be on their side if they kept a percentage of the funds as security. The backers have a moral right to see a business plan, if any person at all has one. It's their money and they did not give it to paypal so that paypal can collect interest on it, they gave it to mailpile and they collectively are shouldering a much bigger risk than paypal in that transaction.
      - jasonlotito 13y ago
        > they collectively are shouldering a much bigger risk than paypal in that transaction. No, they are not. Financially, PayPal is the one shouldering the biggest risk. Edit: > No and no. They're a payment provider, They most likely have legal obligations in various jurisdictions and with the credit card providers to do due diligence. And looking at business plans and how payments like this will be used is an important part of that. Try getting the same funding directly from a bank rather than going through a middleman and see what they ask for. Every time a PayPal story comes up, I'm always reading at how the people are innocent and everything is fine, and yet, they are doing something shady. Here you have an organization that's effectively asking for donations to support a project, but it's not, from what I can tell, certified as a non-profit. So suddenly yes, that does become high risk. Any banker in the world is going to look at this scenario and know that it's high risk.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ballard 13y ago
  I support your position. This is like a bad investor trying to type on your keyboard and criticize your bikeshed's color. Paypal needs to MTOB.

scrabble 13y ago

When this happens, does PayPal provide interest on the funds that they withhold?