8 ms·

I don't know why, in 2013, people are surprised when they use PayPal and wind up without access to the money for months or years. Paypal apologists will say th

I don't know why, in 2013, people are surprised when they use PayPal and wind up without access to the money for months or years. Paypal apologists will say that this is relatively rare. Even if that is true, since the criteria they use to take these actions are often beyond the control of merchants, using PayPal is an unacceptable risk for any business that doesn't have at least 6 months of working capital. Always avoid PayPal if you need access to the money. Even if you feel that your business falls squarely within PayPal's AUP, always have a backup implementation with an alternative payment provider coded and ready to go (I recommend using Stripe and skipping PayPal altogether). You don't want to lose new sales on top of the money PayPal decides to hold indefinitely.

gaius 13y ago
What should they use - Google Checkout? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/answer/3080449?hl=en-GB https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/answer/3080449?hl=e... For better or worse, Paypal has survived and looks like it's going to go on surviving, that's why people if they only support one method, choose it.
- justysebitcoin 13y ago
  Bitcoin
  - hackerboos 13y ago
    Because everyone wants to limit their crowd-funding project to a micro-niche of internet users competent enough to use this internet currency. Bitcoin has a long way to go before it's as easy to use as Paypal.
    - elux 13y ago
      >Bitcoin has a long way to go before it's as easy to use as Paypal. Coinbase (out of Y combinator) is getting there.
- M4v3R 13y ago
  People can get tired of other people telling this, but really, they should use Bitcoin. There are several advantages of this: accountability (you can verify with the block chain that they really received your payment), ease of use (utilizing 3rd parties like Coinbase, BitPay and others you don't really have to know how Bitcoin works to pay with them) and most importantly - irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. PS. They accept Bitcoin donations (not in the indiegogo campaign, just independently) and already raised 52.44 BTC which roughly translates to 5244 EUR. Not bad if you ask me for a payment channel that's not actively advertised by them.
  - annnnd 13y ago
    Of course you also have about zero privacy with bitcoin (by design), but who cares about that, right?
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      Just like everything else.
      - annnnd 13y ago
        Not really - can USA spy on credit cards issued by Chinese banks? And vice-versa? There is at least some level of privacy. But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases.
        MacsHeadroom 13y ago
        If it's a Visa or MasterCard, yes the US Gov can spy on it. If it isn't, you can't use it to pay Mailpile- so it's irreverent.
        M4v3R 13y ago
        That's only true if one has access to data at every point in the block chain. If at some point coins go to a private person or company that didn't advertise their address anywhere you're lost. There's no way to know who own a Bitcoin address if it's not part of any online service/exchange and was funded by someone else.
fennecfoxen 13y ago
Yeah.... even my mother knows better than to use PayPal.
grandalf 13y ago
I've seen PayPal nearly put several small businesses out of business. There are some things that cause PayPal to just freeze an account, and it's next to impossible to speak to a human or to otherwise get the situation resolved. Pretty much the only threat to Stripe's eventual world domination would be PayPal getting its act together.
- ig1 13y ago
  Most of Paypal's competitors weren't wiped out by Paypal being good, they were wiped out because they weren't as good as handling risk and fraud as Paypal. They got wiped out by criminals. Paypal is risk averse, which means you shouldn't use them for cases where you're taking a large amount of money up front and not delivering in the near future (i.e events, crowd-funding), or alternatively get pre-approval from Paypal. I've no idea what the current fraud level against Stripe is, but as they become more mainstream they're going to need to employ more anti-fraud and anti-risk measures as their exposure increases.
  - pc 13y ago
    > I've no idea what the current fraud level against Stripe is, but as they become more mainstream they're going to need to employ more anti-fraud and anti-risk measures as their exposure increases. I'm one of Stripe's cofounders. For what it's worth -- we already process billions of dollars a year. (More than PayPal when it was acquired.) There'll always be more we can do on the fraud/risk side, but we're already operating at a scale that requires a decent amount of sophistication.
    - matznerd 13y ago
      Stripe rocks :)
    - Uchikoma 13y ago
      You're right, but then there was no PayPal when PayPal reached their size, so the situation now seems different to me.
    - 13y ago
chatmasta 13y ago
Everyone always recommends Stripe as an alternative to PayPal. Sure, it's an alternative to PayPal for accepting credit cards. But it doesn't accept payments from PayPal accounts, which is the only reason most people use PayPal in the first place. I have a business in the SEO sector, and many of my clients are foreign without credit cards. Over 50% of my transactions are from PayPal (the that option is direct credit card through a traditional gateway).
- kalleboo 13y ago
  I use PayPal when it's an option simply to avoid giving out my credit card number to every site I purchase from

gaius 13y ago

What should they use - Google Checkout? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/answer/3080449?hl=en-GB https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/answer/3080449?hl=e... For better or worse, Paypal has survived and looks like it's going to go on surviving, that's why people if they only support one method, choose it.

justysebitcoin 13y ago
Bitcoin
- hackerboos 13y ago
  Because everyone wants to limit their crowd-funding project to a micro-niche of internet users competent enough to use this internet currency. Bitcoin has a long way to go before it's as easy to use as Paypal.
  - elux 13y ago
    >Bitcoin has a long way to go before it's as easy to use as Paypal. Coinbase (out of Y combinator) is getting there.
M4v3R 13y ago
People can get tired of other people telling this, but really, they should use Bitcoin. There are several advantages of this: accountability (you can verify with the block chain that they really received your payment), ease of use (utilizing 3rd parties like Coinbase, BitPay and others you don't really have to know how Bitcoin works to pay with them) and most importantly - irreversibility - once you receive Bitcoin there are no chargebacks. PS. They accept Bitcoin donations (not in the indiegogo campaign, just independently) and already raised 52.44 BTC which roughly translates to 5244 EUR. Not bad if you ask me for a payment channel that's not actively advertised by them.
- annnnd 13y ago
  Of course you also have about zero privacy with bitcoin (by design), but who cares about that, right?
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Just like everything else.
    - annnnd 13y ago
      Not really - can USA spy on credit cards issued by Chinese banks? And vice-versa? There is at least some level of privacy. But with BTC every time you make a purchase you can be linked to all your previous and future purchases.
      - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
        If it's a Visa or MasterCard, yes the US Gov can spy on it. If it isn't, you can't use it to pay Mailpile- so it's irreverent.
      - M4v3R 13y ago
        That's only true if one has access to data at every point in the block chain. If at some point coins go to a private person or company that didn't advertise their address anywhere you're lost. There's no way to know who own a Bitcoin address if it's not part of any online service/exchange and was funded by someone else.

fennecfoxen 13y ago

Yeah.... even my mother knows better than to use PayPal.

grandalf 13y ago

I've seen PayPal nearly put several small businesses out of business. There are some things that cause PayPal to just freeze an account, and it's next to impossible to speak to a human or to otherwise get the situation resolved. Pretty much the only threat to Stripe's eventual world domination would be PayPal getting its act together.

ig1 13y ago
Most of Paypal's competitors weren't wiped out by Paypal being good, they were wiped out because they weren't as good as handling risk and fraud as Paypal. They got wiped out by criminals. Paypal is risk averse, which means you shouldn't use them for cases where you're taking a large amount of money up front and not delivering in the near future (i.e events, crowd-funding), or alternatively get pre-approval from Paypal. I've no idea what the current fraud level against Stripe is, but as they become more mainstream they're going to need to employ more anti-fraud and anti-risk measures as their exposure increases.
- pc 13y ago
  > I've no idea what the current fraud level against Stripe is, but as they become more mainstream they're going to need to employ more anti-fraud and anti-risk measures as their exposure increases. I'm one of Stripe's cofounders. For what it's worth -- we already process billions of dollars a year. (More than PayPal when it was acquired.) There'll always be more we can do on the fraud/risk side, but we're already operating at a scale that requires a decent amount of sophistication.
  - matznerd 13y ago
    Stripe rocks :)
  - Uchikoma 13y ago
    You're right, but then there was no PayPal when PayPal reached their size, so the situation now seems different to me.
  - 13y ago

chatmasta 13y ago

Everyone always recommends Stripe as an alternative to PayPal. Sure, it's an alternative to PayPal for accepting credit cards. But it doesn't accept payments from PayPal accounts, which is the only reason most people use PayPal in the first place. I have a business in the SEO sector, and many of my clients are foreign without credit cards. Over 50% of my transactions are from PayPal (the that option is direct credit card through a traditional gateway).

kalleboo 13y ago
I use PayPal when it's an option simply to avoid giving out my credit card number to every site I purchase from