6 ms·

> As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. There are several ways you can fight it. 1. Voting. If you live in New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria or Tasma

> As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. There are several ways you can fight it. 1. Voting. If you live in New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria or Tasmania, you can vote for the Pirate Party in the Senate on Saturday. If you live in NSW, Victoria or Western Australia, you can vote for the Wikileaks Party. Live anywhere, and you can vote for the Sex Party or the Greens. 2. Activism. Join one or more of these parties. 3. Software. Write software that circumvents the censorship. > This issue is regularly floated by both "sides" of politics People who think there are only two sides are wrong.

shirro 13y ago
The senate is it though. If you live in a safe seat like me you have no influence on who gets into government, only wrecking things when they are in.
- cabalamat 13y ago
  One good thing about the House of Representatives is that, because it uses AV, you can give your higher preferences to the smaller parties without it being a a wasted vote.
westicle 13y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. I say that as someone who will vote Wikileaks on Saturday. But in realistic terms, unfortunately there are only two viable sides in the legislative house. Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election.
- cabalamat 13y ago
  > Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. It is possible to win. We blocked SOPA and ACTA. The vote to partially defund the NSA was only lost by a narrow margin. There are Pirates in the European Parliament (and will probably be more next year). There is more awareness of digital rights than there ever has been before, and importantly for the future it's higher amoung younger voters. This is a fight that can be won.
  - luke_s 13y ago
    Perhaps at the grand old age of 32, I am becoming bitter and jaded but after SOPA and ACTA was blocked, they are just going to come around and try again and again and again. This is exactly what has happened in Australia with this damn internet filter. I remember what it was like to dial into BBS's when I was in high school. The freedoms we had online then were incredible compared to what we have today. The fight we are fighting is not one to win new territory or new freedoms - its one to protect what we already have. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. But we have to win all the time just to keep things where they are today. All it takes is one loss and something is irrevocably gone...
    - precisioncoder 13y ago
      Take a look at china. All this means is that ordinary people will have proxy education in their teenage years.
      - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
        And the artists of the world can have a fresh supply of human skulls -- with the unfortunate defect that there is a bullet hole through them. But that just makes them a bargain. Don't feel bad. It just means the family of the deviant hacker criminal won't have to pay the bill for the bullet. Or in other words: Yeah, china. There's an ideal to aspire to.
- nl 13y ago
  I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. Of course it's not. People forget that the NBN cost the Liberal party the last election. People care about "this stuff" now Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election. That isn't true. Brandt (Greens) is the favourite in Melbourne[1] and Wilkie is favourite in Denison[2]. There's also a conservative independent who is favourite to win a seat in Victoria but I can't find her name or the reference at the moment. [1] http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/melbourne-voters-go-green-over-libs-decision-to-back-labor-20130903-2t3dp.html http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2... [2] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/denison-hold-for-wednesday/4924664?section=tas http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/denison-hold-for-wedne...
bolder88 13y ago
There will always be only 2 relevant sides in politics. If there were 3 or more, then it means that one sides vote is split, and so will not get a majority. Unless of course you have some wacky proportional representation system.
- nl 13y ago
  In Australia we have a wacky proportional representation system.
  - jsmeaton 13y ago
    Handing seats over to the greens and independents is pretty much why we had a minority government though. The system works on a seat by seat basis, but it doesn't seem to work when forming a government. Though this election is going to be a landslide for the Libs, and split votes aren't going to have much impact.
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      The system has almost always worked as intended: the Government is formed in the House, which has the monopoly on questions of supply. Because the House is single-member electorates, there has been a clear majority in every election except for 2, including this outgoing Parliament. The Senate doesn't form the government and cannot originate supply bills, but otherwise has coequal legislative powers. It is elected on a proportional basis. The system works well because a government can normally form quickly and govern stably, but in order to pass legislation it must give consideration to minority parties in the Senate. You get an Executive that can execute but which must nevertheless be prepared to compromise.
      - jsmeaton 13y ago
        Good points, thanks for that. I guess I have thought about the minority government a little too much when it is an anomaly. I have no problems with the senate. I vote for minority parties (Sex Party last election and this one) because I want protection from the government when required.
jacques_chester 13y ago
Most states have Liberal Democrat senate candidates, for those of a more libertarian bent.
Wingman4l7 13y ago
RE: #3, I feel compelled to repeat myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6138515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6138515 In a nutshell -- resorting to technical fixes treats the symptom and not the disease, and leaves behind the majority of the population.

shirro 13y ago

The senate is it though. If you live in a safe seat like me you have no influence on who gets into government, only wrecking things when they are in.

cabalamat 13y ago
One good thing about the House of Representatives is that, because it uses AV, you can give your higher preferences to the smaller parties without it being a a wasted vote.

westicle 13y ago

Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. I say that as someone who will vote Wikileaks on Saturday. But in realistic terms, unfortunately there are only two viable sides in the legislative house. Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election.

cabalamat 13y ago
> Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. It is possible to win. We blocked SOPA and ACTA. The vote to partially defund the NSA was only lost by a narrow margin. There are Pirates in the European Parliament (and will probably be more next year). There is more awareness of digital rights than there ever has been before, and importantly for the future it's higher amoung younger voters. This is a fight that can be won.
- luke_s 13y ago
  Perhaps at the grand old age of 32, I am becoming bitter and jaded but after SOPA and ACTA was blocked, they are just going to come around and try again and again and again. This is exactly what has happened in Australia with this damn internet filter. I remember what it was like to dial into BBS's when I was in high school. The freedoms we had online then were incredible compared to what we have today. The fight we are fighting is not one to win new territory or new freedoms - its one to protect what we already have. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. But we have to win all the time just to keep things where they are today. All it takes is one loss and something is irrevocably gone...
  - precisioncoder 13y ago
    Take a look at china. All this means is that ordinary people will have proxy education in their teenage years.
    - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
      And the artists of the world can have a fresh supply of human skulls -- with the unfortunate defect that there is a bullet hole through them. But that just makes them a bargain. Don't feel bad. It just means the family of the deviant hacker criminal won't have to pay the bill for the bullet. Or in other words: Yeah, china. There's an ideal to aspire to.
nl 13y ago
I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. Of course it's not. People forget that the NBN cost the Liberal party the last election. People care about "this stuff" now Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election. That isn't true. Brandt (Greens) is the favourite in Melbourne[1] and Wilkie is favourite in Denison[2]. There's also a conservative independent who is favourite to win a seat in Victoria but I can't find her name or the reference at the moment. [1] http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/melbourne-voters-go-green-over-libs-decision-to-back-labor-20130903-2t3dp.html http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2... [2] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/denison-hold-for-wednesday/4924664?section=tas http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/denison-hold-for-wedne...

bolder88 13y ago

There will always be only 2 relevant sides in politics. If there were 3 or more, then it means that one sides vote is split, and so will not get a majority. Unless of course you have some wacky proportional representation system.

nl 13y ago
In Australia we have a wacky proportional representation system.
- jsmeaton 13y ago
  Handing seats over to the greens and independents is pretty much why we had a minority government though. The system works on a seat by seat basis, but it doesn't seem to work when forming a government. Though this election is going to be a landslide for the Libs, and split votes aren't going to have much impact.
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    The system has almost always worked as intended: the Government is formed in the House, which has the monopoly on questions of supply. Because the House is single-member electorates, there has been a clear majority in every election except for 2, including this outgoing Parliament. The Senate doesn't form the government and cannot originate supply bills, but otherwise has coequal legislative powers. It is elected on a proportional basis. The system works well because a government can normally form quickly and govern stably, but in order to pass legislation it must give consideration to minority parties in the Senate. You get an Executive that can execute but which must nevertheless be prepared to compromise.
    - jsmeaton 13y ago
      Good points, thanks for that. I guess I have thought about the minority government a little too much when it is an anomaly. I have no problems with the senate. I vote for minority parties (Sex Party last election and this one) because I want protection from the government when required.

jacques_chester 13y ago

Most states have Liberal Democrat senate candidates, for those of a more libertarian bent.

Wingman4l7 13y ago

RE: #3, I feel compelled to repeat myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6138515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6138515 In a nutshell -- resorting to technical fixes treats the symptom and not the disease, and leaves behind the majority of the population.