4 ms·

I do agree with you. But what is the solution? Even if I can't change a global trend, what can I do to side step it and still keep it enjoyable to myself?

asciilifeform 17y ago
Try Mathematica. Currently it is the only programming environment I find tolerable.
- weavejester 17y ago
  Out of interest, why?
  - asciilifeform 17y ago
    Well, among other things: Sufficiently Lispy to not feel like a straightjacket; integrated documentation with worked examples for literally every language feature; vector/bitmap graphics, audio, as first-class data types; pattern rewrites as a superior form of macro system; higher-order programming of every kind (if you like Haskell, you can "write it" in Mathematica); the ability to execute individual lines of code and see immediate feedback; a parsing system which obsoletes regexps; syntax which never leads to tears (Perl, I'm looking at you); a library of curated data on almost every topic; seamless file and www i/o; debugging facilities unmatched by anything short of Symbolics Genera. I also ought to add that I have been programming in Mathematica full-time for almost half a year, and have never needed to use an external library of any kind. This is only a small subset of the useful aspects. The biggest downside, however, is that Mathematica is proprietary and expensive. On top of that, it is also rather slow. All of the features I've listed should be expected as basic and factory-standard on every computer. The fact that our expectations are as low as they are shows just how little actual progress has taken place in the industry at large in the past two decades.
    - bayareaguy 17y ago
      On the subject of Mathematica vs Lisp, I found this[1] thread interesting especially as it contains a lengthy review[2] by Fateman. While my own personal experience with it is limited, I have to say its rules for evaluating expressions are quite tricky to master compared to Lisp. 1- http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2004-06/28index.html http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2004... 2- http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/mma.review.pdf http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/mma.review.pdf

asciilifeform 17y ago

Try Mathematica. Currently it is the only programming environment I find tolerable.

weavejester 17y ago
Out of interest, why?
- asciilifeform 17y ago
  Well, among other things: Sufficiently Lispy to not feel like a straightjacket; integrated documentation with worked examples for literally every language feature; vector/bitmap graphics, audio, as first-class data types; pattern rewrites as a superior form of macro system; higher-order programming of every kind (if you like Haskell, you can "write it" in Mathematica); the ability to execute individual lines of code and see immediate feedback; a parsing system which obsoletes regexps; syntax which never leads to tears (Perl, I'm looking at you); a library of curated data on almost every topic; seamless file and www i/o; debugging facilities unmatched by anything short of Symbolics Genera. I also ought to add that I have been programming in Mathematica full-time for almost half a year, and have never needed to use an external library of any kind. This is only a small subset of the useful aspects. The biggest downside, however, is that Mathematica is proprietary and expensive. On top of that, it is also rather slow. All of the features I've listed should be expected as basic and factory-standard on every computer. The fact that our expectations are as low as they are shows just how little actual progress has taken place in the industry at large in the past two decades.
  - bayareaguy 17y ago
    On the subject of Mathematica vs Lisp, I found this[1] thread interesting especially as it contains a lengthy review[2] by Fateman. While my own personal experience with it is limited, I have to say its rules for evaluating expressions are quite tricky to master compared to Lisp. 1- http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2004-06/28index.html http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2004... 2- http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/mma.review.pdf http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/mma.review.pdf