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Most schools are awful, and drive any vestige of curiosity out of the students. But... The best teachers I've had have been the ones who knew exactly how hard

Most schools are awful, and drive any vestige of curiosity out of the students. But... The best teachers I've had have been the ones who knew exactly how hard to push students to master a body of material, and were respected when they told us to suck it up. I couldn't have learned more self directed than I did by those talented taskmasters. But the other 90% of my K-12 (or dare I say K-16?) academic experience? I'm just lucky that I can test well.

craigyk 13y ago
IMO, for most people 1-2 really good teachers are all they need. Also, there is some value in teaching people that sometimes you just need to do what you're told... and that's coming from someone who has always been diagnosed as having "problems with authority". The article also doesn't really offer any viable alternatives for the average family. The "democratic schools" it describes sound nice, but I don't see how it can scale affordably given safety considerations. The "prison" system scales, and given how much money society seems willing to spend on schools, it's no surprise things have been pushed that way.
- jug6ernaut 13y ago
  > IMO, for most people 1-2 really good teachers are all they need. I could not agree with you more. At least this is the exact case for me. When i was in middle school i was considered below average, below my grade level. I changed schools to a new teacher(3rd grade). It quite literally changed my world. To this day I give that teacher a huge amount of credit for the person i am today. TL;dr;, yes, 1-2 teachers can make all the difference in the world for a student.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    But wasn't a lot of money wasted on all those other years? Or are you suggesting that you need to waste that money for each classroom teacher to reach 1 or 2 a year? (And eventually everyone gets caught)
    - jug6ernaut 13y ago
      No i would not say so. Just like any other profession there are those who are better and worse. I am not saying that these other teachers did a bad job, hell a lot of them were great teachers. What i am saying is that even if they had been bad, it would not have made much of a difference as those few awesome teachers had already instilled in me what it takes to learn. I am of the opinion that if someone wants to learn, they will. But i also think it can take someone who tells you, shows you, and helps get to that point so you can know that its possible.
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  Also, there is some value in teaching people that sometimes you just need to do what you're told... and that's coming from someone who has always been diagnosed as having "problems with authority". That of course requires that Those In Charge have the right sense of purpose, that they know what they are teaching and why they are doing it. George Polya had some words about is, and then there is this remark in Mark's Gospel, where the people "were astonished at [Jesus'] teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes."
- mathattack 13y ago
  The prison scales, but they are absolutely awful at what they do, and waste an incredible amount of money. I've seen some online curriculums that are promising, but that requires a parent to be at home. Some charters have some good ideas, but the charters that are scaling and getting high test scores seem to be masters of the prison model. I'm still optimistic on the charter side. Let us take the education dollars elsewhere!
RougeFemme 13y ago
And for me, those same teachers were the first to force me to think critically and at a much higher level than I ever thought I could. Unfortunately, standardized tests don't lend themselves to critical thinking.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
This is an excellent point but you have to consider it within the larger context. How much of children's natural enthusiasm for reading, writing, and analysis is burned out of them by other teachers? Moreover, a lot of kids aren't lucky enough to ever have an exceptional teacher of that sort.
- asiekierka 13y ago
  Like me. 16 here, and I already feel burned out. I used to code as a hobby when I was 13-15, but nowadays, I do nothing... Sad. (Maybe I should blame myself for it, and not school, but it just feels like that's what made me unable to learn for anything other than a need for good grades... that and being naturally good at memorizing information for a short period of time)
  - protomyth 13y ago
    I know the feeling. I lived for coding, but I had one HS teacher that made me absolutely want to stay away from his computer classes. Hobbies are important, keep them even if the them changes How many hours a night are you doing homework?
    - asiekierka 13y ago
      From zero to two. I try to do as much as possible in school, on breaks and even go to school earlier in the morning so I do not lose a valuable amount of time by context switching back and forth. Hobbies... I just don't want to do them. Time feels scarce and I fear no matter what project I start, there might be a better idea in my mind (and I have a few) that would be better worth doing.
      - protomyth 13y ago
        Write your ideas down, keep a journal[1], but don't let it paralyze you from doing things. Doing fun side things will make those written ideas better and often will gel into something else. 1) I use an actual paper journal. I'm 43 and the idea behind all the stuff I've written finally became obvious this year (while I was on vacation and not thinking about it). Do wish I had started on the whole journal thing earlier.

craigyk 13y ago

IMO, for most people 1-2 really good teachers are all they need. Also, there is some value in teaching people that sometimes you just need to do what you're told... and that's coming from someone who has always been diagnosed as having "problems with authority". The article also doesn't really offer any viable alternatives for the average family. The "democratic schools" it describes sound nice, but I don't see how it can scale affordably given safety considerations. The "prison" system scales, and given how much money society seems willing to spend on schools, it's no surprise things have been pushed that way.

jug6ernaut 13y ago
> IMO, for most people 1-2 really good teachers are all they need. I could not agree with you more. At least this is the exact case for me. When i was in middle school i was considered below average, below my grade level. I changed schools to a new teacher(3rd grade). It quite literally changed my world. To this day I give that teacher a huge amount of credit for the person i am today. TL;dr;, yes, 1-2 teachers can make all the difference in the world for a student.
- mathattack 13y ago
  But wasn't a lot of money wasted on all those other years? Or are you suggesting that you need to waste that money for each classroom teacher to reach 1 or 2 a year? (And eventually everyone gets caught)
  - jug6ernaut 13y ago
    No i would not say so. Just like any other profession there are those who are better and worse. I am not saying that these other teachers did a bad job, hell a lot of them were great teachers. What i am saying is that even if they had been bad, it would not have made much of a difference as those few awesome teachers had already instilled in me what it takes to learn. I am of the opinion that if someone wants to learn, they will. But i also think it can take someone who tells you, shows you, and helps get to that point so you can know that its possible.
HarryHirsch 13y ago
Also, there is some value in teaching people that sometimes you just need to do what you're told... and that's coming from someone who has always been diagnosed as having "problems with authority". That of course requires that Those In Charge have the right sense of purpose, that they know what they are teaching and why they are doing it. George Polya had some words about is, and then there is this remark in Mark's Gospel, where the people "were astonished at [Jesus'] teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes."
mathattack 13y ago
The prison scales, but they are absolutely awful at what they do, and waste an incredible amount of money. I've seen some online curriculums that are promising, but that requires a parent to be at home. Some charters have some good ideas, but the charters that are scaling and getting high test scores seem to be masters of the prison model. I'm still optimistic on the charter side. Let us take the education dollars elsewhere!

RougeFemme 13y ago

And for me, those same teachers were the first to force me to think critically and at a much higher level than I ever thought I could. Unfortunately, standardized tests don't lend themselves to critical thinking.

InclinedPlane 13y ago

This is an excellent point but you have to consider it within the larger context. How much of children's natural enthusiasm for reading, writing, and analysis is burned out of them by other teachers? Moreover, a lot of kids aren't lucky enough to ever have an exceptional teacher of that sort.

asiekierka 13y ago
Like me. 16 here, and I already feel burned out. I used to code as a hobby when I was 13-15, but nowadays, I do nothing... Sad. (Maybe I should blame myself for it, and not school, but it just feels like that's what made me unable to learn for anything other than a need for good grades... that and being naturally good at memorizing information for a short period of time)
- protomyth 13y ago
  I know the feeling. I lived for coding, but I had one HS teacher that made me absolutely want to stay away from his computer classes. Hobbies are important, keep them even if the them changes How many hours a night are you doing homework?
  - asiekierka 13y ago
    From zero to two. I try to do as much as possible in school, on breaks and even go to school earlier in the morning so I do not lose a valuable amount of time by context switching back and forth. Hobbies... I just don't want to do them. Time feels scarce and I fear no matter what project I start, there might be a better idea in my mind (and I have a few) that would be better worth doing.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Write your ideas down, keep a journal[1], but don't let it paralyze you from doing things. Doing fun side things will make those written ideas better and often will gel into something else. 1) I use an actual paper journal. I'm 43 and the idea behind all the stuff I've written finally became obvious this year (while I was on vacation and not thinking about it). Do wish I had started on the whole journal thing earlier.