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Unlike you, I greatly enjoy articles such as this one. Let me begin with the caveat that I agree that it is more speculation than science, and it is unfortunat

Unlike you, I greatly enjoy articles such as this one. Let me begin with the caveat that I agree that it is more speculation than science, and it is unfortunate that the author presents it as if it were a scientific paper rather than a blog post. But note that it hasn't been published anywhere, so it is not as if the scientific community is accepting it as science. You seem to have the opinion that anything that is not science is at best not worth doing, and at worst evil. I urge you to re-examine that assumption. Now, if there were a scientific way of answering the question that the article considers, that would be a very different situation. In the absence of one, it is ridiculous to suggest that no one should think about it. And if people think about it, they will present their attempted answers to the world. Hopefully, their arguments will rest on logic, even if not empirically verifiable. This is an expression of human curiosity, and I think it is natural and wonderful. I say we should continue to discuss articles like this, but doing our best to keep in mind that they are not proven theories. As our experimental abilities improve, it might turn out that today's speculation is fertile ground for tomorrow's experimentation as a bed of hypothesis to test and accept or discard. Finally, even if one's sole concern is the dissemination of scientific knowledge, I contend that the article is still useful if it makes people think and learn more about the fascinating, fascinating phenomenon of Fischerian runaway (to give just one example).

kirse 17y ago
-- In the absence of one, it is ridiculous to suggest that no one should think about it. I'm not saying that no one should think about it, I'm saying we should have a better filter that immediately separates garbage science from good science. It takes about 10 minutes of reading and a few paragraphs to realize that this is absolute garbage and doesn't need to be voted up. -- but doing our best to keep in mind that they are not proven theories. Now that I think about it, what really irks me here is that I know people are actually reading stuff like this (which throws around enough scientific terminology and academic quotes to sound reasonable) and then some of those people go on believing that really is the answer to the hypothesis presented. That is what has happened to a lot of science these days. There's so much semi-believable trash and conjecture like this tossed out in so many different fields of study that I just wish people would get a better sense of what even has a remotely logical basis for validity. It pains me to know that even one person is reading this trash and coming away thinking that "Gee, science has solved another one!" when in fact it has not.
- ellyagg 17y ago
  He is speculating, and some of his speculation is interesting. At this point, I think you are rationalizing your intuitional dislike of the article. It seems more likely that some of his speculation just rubs you the wrong way. We're a long way from being able to tell why animals developed the traits they did through evolution. We're a really long way from being able to empirically prove it. That doesn't mean speculation isn't fun in the meantime.
  - kirse 17y ago
    At this point, I think you are rationalizing your intuitional dislike of the article. Maybe you're not understanding me, and maybe this is partially because you're new to the community... But when I visit HN, I don't want to be presented with the 99.99% of speculative trash that fills the internet. I can go to Digg or Reddit for this sort of junk science that gets us intellectually nowhere. I (and everyone else) want to see that quality .01% that presents legitimate scientific inquiry, regardless of whether we agree with it or not.
    - dejb 17y ago
      I think you don't get it. Speculation is not the same as junk science. Speculation can be insightful, interesting and intelligent or it can be the opposite. Obviously you thought it was trash and just as obviously a larger number of HN'ers thought it was good. You seem to arguing that everyone else should use your criteria for what should be on Hacker News.
      - dejb 17y ago
        Actually I had a look at a few of the guy's other articles and it seems he is a little loose with his facts. I love good speculation and I thought that article had some. But the author often does seem to miss the distinction between fact and opinion. Still you (kirse) should be prepared to back yourself up if you are going to label the article as trash.
- randomwalker 17y ago
Tichy 17y ago
"I say we should continue to discuss articles like this, but doing our best to keep in mind that they are not proven theories." Isn't that true for all science? Still at one point we have to take the one or other theory and work with it, because it is the best we have. People built the Eiffel tower before Einstein came along and relativized physics (I think - did not look up the dates). Not that I disagree with you, but I think "remember they are not proven theories" is still a bit of a cop out. Would you say that Evolution is not a proven theory? I think it is more accurate to assume we have not yet gotten every nano detail right, but the big picture seems very, very likely. (Of course the article in question, as you say, is just an article on a web site, not a peer reviewed thing).

kirse 17y ago

-- In the absence of one, it is ridiculous to suggest that no one should think about it. I'm not saying that no one should think about it, I'm saying we should have a better filter that immediately separates garbage science from good science. It takes about 10 minutes of reading and a few paragraphs to realize that this is absolute garbage and doesn't need to be voted up. -- but doing our best to keep in mind that they are not proven theories. Now that I think about it, what really irks me here is that I know people are actually reading stuff like this (which throws around enough scientific terminology and academic quotes to sound reasonable) and then some of those people go on believing that really is the answer to the hypothesis presented. That is what has happened to a lot of science these days. There's so much semi-believable trash and conjecture like this tossed out in so many different fields of study that I just wish people would get a better sense of what even has a remotely logical basis for validity. It pains me to know that even one person is reading this trash and coming away thinking that "Gee, science has solved another one!" when in fact it has not.

ellyagg 17y ago
He is speculating, and some of his speculation is interesting. At this point, I think you are rationalizing your intuitional dislike of the article. It seems more likely that some of his speculation just rubs you the wrong way. We're a long way from being able to tell why animals developed the traits they did through evolution. We're a really long way from being able to empirically prove it. That doesn't mean speculation isn't fun in the meantime.
- kirse 17y ago
  At this point, I think you are rationalizing your intuitional dislike of the article. Maybe you're not understanding me, and maybe this is partially because you're new to the community... But when I visit HN, I don't want to be presented with the 99.99% of speculative trash that fills the internet. I can go to Digg or Reddit for this sort of junk science that gets us intellectually nowhere. I (and everyone else) want to see that quality .01% that presents legitimate scientific inquiry, regardless of whether we agree with it or not.
  - dejb 17y ago
    I think you don't get it. Speculation is not the same as junk science. Speculation can be insightful, interesting and intelligent or it can be the opposite. Obviously you thought it was trash and just as obviously a larger number of HN'ers thought it was good. You seem to arguing that everyone else should use your criteria for what should be on Hacker News.
    - dejb 17y ago
      Actually I had a look at a few of the guy's other articles and it seems he is a little loose with his facts. I love good speculation and I thought that article had some. But the author often does seem to miss the distinction between fact and opinion. Still you (kirse) should be prepared to back yourself up if you are going to label the article as trash.
randomwalker 17y ago

Tichy 17y ago

"I say we should continue to discuss articles like this, but doing our best to keep in mind that they are not proven theories." Isn't that true for all science? Still at one point we have to take the one or other theory and work with it, because it is the best we have. People built the Eiffel tower before Einstein came along and relativized physics (I think - did not look up the dates). Not that I disagree with you, but I think "remember they are not proven theories" is still a bit of a cop out. Would you say that Evolution is not a proven theory? I think it is more accurate to assume we have not yet gotten every nano detail right, but the big picture seems very, very likely. (Of course the article in question, as you say, is just an article on a web site, not a peer reviewed thing).