8 ms·

This is awesome for the consumer, absolutely. And it's only made possible by the recent DOJ trial that effectively allowed Amazon to set prices of ebooks (whole

by gdilla 13y ago

This is awesome for the consumer, absolutely. And it's only made possible by the recent DOJ trial that effectively allowed Amazon to set prices of ebooks (wholesale vs agency model). Recall that agency model, the publisher sets the price (the same as apps on the app store). But now that Amazon can set any price they want for ebooks (and take a loss on them if they want to, which they have done before), Amazon can do cool stuff like this. Amazon has already started discounting ebooks - some of the bestsellers are now cheaper on amazon in ebook form than on iBooks. That never happened before in Agency model, where price parity was a rule. There is nothing inherently wrong with Agency model pricing; indeed it has been the norm since mp3s on iTunes 10 years ago. But Amazon competes on price, and Agency was a big wrench in those plans. Now that they can do anything they want with digital pricing, they're applying the stake in all other ebook retailers hearts. Will be fun to watch. I speculate publishers will hate this. eBooks were one of the last digital media where value hasn't become completely pulvarized (see: Apps, MP3s). Though, its certainly possible physical book sales could be bolstered by this.

AceJohnny2 13y ago
I think Charles Stross writings on ebooks is interesting and insightful. He should know: he's a tech-savvy best-selling author. (He hangs around here too: [1]) He wrote a couple of posts a year and a half ago, they still apply. In them, he explains how Amazon is making itself a monopoly, and that isn't good for anyone but them. What's been most informative to me is how tiny publishers actually are, and how little money the author actually gets. It doesn't paint Amazon as the good guy. It's also why I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cstross https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cstross [2] http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understanding-amazons-strategy.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understa... [3] http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/more-on-drm-and-ebooks.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/more-on-...
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  > It's also why I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. Isn't this true, Amazon or not? Hardcovers cost the customer more than paperbacks or ebooks, so the author should be getting hopefully a larger cut of the sale. I think this program (if it has enough titles that I've bought in the past) is going to be awesome. I've never bought a Kindle because paying almost the same price for the Kindle version of a book vs. the paperback cost is ridiculous. Now with this program I will buy a Kindle so I can read my past purchases via that when I'm traveling, and my paperback versions when I'm sitting around at home. Does anyone know if you can actually use this program with used book purchases? I've bought many books used (many times for only a few bucks including shipping), so I don't know if they would be eligible for this program or not.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    Hmm, I always bought the Kindle editions because physical books are a pain in the ass to read. Before the Kindle, I even resorted to a WinCE device (built-in backlight, easy rotation for any position). Kindle Paperwhite is simply the best reading experience I've ever had in my life. The fact I could get a paper version doesn't even factor into my decision. Actually, the price rarely factors into the decision, as the difference is usually only a few bucks anyways.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikevm 13y ago
      One of the things I hate the most about reading books is holding them up while reading. eReaders have solved this problem for me, and now I am a happy camper!
      - dsuth 13y ago
        You... don't have to hold an eReader up? One of the worst things about reading ebooks on my iPad 2 is the weight.
- gdilla 13y ago
  Yeah.. I didn't think that through. Amazon becoming more monopolistic isn't 'absolutely' awesome for the consumer. You're right. Heck, the price of physical books on amazon may start to creep up now - no one can compete with them for miles anyway.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    It's not absolutely awesome, but when you compare the competition, and look at Amazon's generally fantastic customer service, it does come out pretty awesomely for the consumer. Now and then I get riled up that I can't give my finished eBook to someone else, but then I remember I have Calibre and Google so it's not a big deal. (And once, when I had a problem purchasing on Amazon, I just downloaded the book and bought it a couple days later. DRM isn't really a hassle in practise.) Publishers did it to themselves, being idiotically worried about piracy, instead of pushing for standards and selling directly. They gave Amazon the market out of their own stupidity. So you can't blame Amazon for picking up on that. Maybe one day Amazon will turn around and act hostile towards customers, but so far, everyone I know has had only excellent experiences (OTOH, my overall Amazon spend is sorta high, so maybe I've got a gold star on my account). Even on the earlier Kindles, they'd overnight me replacements for damage; once they even sent an extra one and were sorta confused when I tried to return it (I hadn't paid for it).
- cbr 13y ago
  I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. Or you could buy what's cheapest and send the difference directly to the author. (This doesn't make sense to do because there's too much friction. One way to deal with that would be to pick a random number between 0 and N and if you get 0 then send them N times that much money otherwise nothing.)
  - josephjrobison 13y ago
    Would it make sense to have the normal Amazon price for Kindles books as they are now but then have an optional button to donate more that goes directly into the author's pocket and nobody else's? Of course only a small percentage would donate anything extra, but it's better than not having the option, and this can reduce a bit of the friction because it's two extra clicks at checkout. I know this has worked in some cases such as for self-published ebooks or indie games, so this could potentially work if the most hardcore fans want to directly support the author. I know for authors or musicians I really love I would want to pay more if the money went directly into their pockets.
    - secabeen 13y ago
      Maybe, but that devalues the work of everyone else who helps on a book. The editors, illustrators, layout/book designer all are skilled professionals, and deserve to be paid for their work as well. See John Scalzi's posts on why publishers are needed: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/03/why-in-fact-publishing-will-not-go-away-anytime-soon-a-deeply-slanted-play-in-three-acts/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/03/why-in-fact-publishing... http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/23/the-ebook-path-to-riches-possibly-steeper-than-assumed/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/23/the-ebook-path-to-rich...
- unethical_ban 13y ago
  I try not to purchase anything from Amazon if I can find an equivalent elsewhere. In the long term, a monopoly on retail is a bad thing for us, and I'm taking the long view. EDIT: Though I must say, I've always wanted a print+digital feature, and if the paperwhite is as cool as they make it look...
  - garfij 13y ago
    I'm a hardcore "real book" lover, but the Paperwhite is definitely as good as they make it look. I leave it on the lowest backlight setting available and it works fantastic in all lighting situations.
  - marcamillion 13y ago
    I appreciate the principled stance, but Amazon won't ever have a monopoly on retail. The internet is too big, and retail is too big, for that. Walmart, etc. would never let that happen. Besides....as much as people like online, I don't think Brick & Mortar stores will all go away. Some may, but everything won't.
    - pdpi 13y ago
      You clearly don't live in the UK. The High Street is dying, and it's online shopping that's playing headman.
      - marcamillion 13y ago
        You're right....I don't live in the UK. Either way....the OP didn't say "Amazon will be a monopoly in the UK"...he implicitly said it would have a 'monopoly on retail'. For all intents and purposes, I assumed he was talking about in Amazon's home country (or even globally given Amazon's distributed nature).
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Since it's trivial for an author to sell his works on his own website (and I've bought ebooks from such author sites), it's hard to see how Amazon could make itself a monopoly. Also, selling an ebook via Amazon does not preclude you from selling it yourself or through other venues.
  - Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
    That might work well if you're a known author or for buyers willing to spend time digging around but it doesn't help new authors reach a mass market. Self publishing will have some sort of a positive impact on things but the reality is that large aggregators will still have a very significant role for discovery and in the mass market.
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      You're right, but my point was that if Amazon became an abusive monopoly, that would spur alternatives. BTW, I found some of those author self-sell web sites because of Reddit postings about their books. In these days of social media, I don't think the traditional gatekeeper role still applies.
  - bproctor 13y ago
    Amazon has a program called KDP. If an author puts their book into the KDP program they receive 70% royalties, but they have to be exclusive on Amazon. If they don't want to be on KDP, they only receive 35% royalties, but they can sell anywhere. That's how Amazon is making itself into a monopoly. edit: I mean KDP Select, not KDP.
- dredwerker 13y ago
  In Australia they don't have Amazon. I guess there are other places like this too. So its not a world monopoly. I miss Amazon :)
  - djt 13y ago
    we have amazon but its shipped from america which adds a lot to the price. Book Depository is good, but i believe that Amazon bought them out?
- gcb0 13y ago
  Everything about this is retarded. The work the author did is the same regardless of where it's printed. Yet hisincome depends on deadtrees and gasp... Hardcovers. This is exactly which should be used to generate more profit for the publisher alone... Adding value to what the author already provided. Everything in all media business is idiotic to say the least.
devx 13y ago
I don't think the agency model was bad per se, it's just that all of the publishers decided to have the same prices with the agency model, which made it very unlikely that there wasn't price fixing, since with an agency model you're supposed to compete like in the free market, and vary prices. I don't think they would've had any problems if they priced them at $10, $8, $3 and so on. But of course the greedy publishers would never do something like that. They wanted to use the agency model so they can move the prices upwards, instead of downwards.
kaolinite 13y ago
Whilst the way Amazon has been doing business is very distasteful (and I was on Apple's side in the recent DOJ trial), I can't see a problem with this offer and in fact am very pleased that a company has finally offered it. The majority of consumers are unlikely to purchase both an ebook and physical copy of the same material, so offering a slight increase in price for both seems like a win for everyone.
dsizzle 13y ago
> I speculate publishers will hate this. It seems publishers have to opt in (e.g., see comment by keltex below). (I suppose they could still hate the pressure to allow it?) Also, it seems they could make additional money with zero marginal costs.
- hullo 13y ago
  There are probably a number of complicated contractual issues to work out with authors even if a publisher is inclined to participate. It's no one's position here that publishers should just choose without consulting the authors, right?
  - dsizzle 13y ago
    It seems authors too need to opt in (again from keltex's comment).
    - cjensen 13y ago
      When an Author opts-out of an Amazon program, Amazon sometimes opts-out of selling the Author's books. Ref: http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2011-12-15.shtml http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2011-12-15.sht... search for "ebook pricing policy"
kkowalczyk 13y ago
Actually, it doesn't look like anything to do with DOJ settlement. This program is completely voluntary for publisher - they have to sign up for it explicitly, Amazon can't just force their hand. Also, it's the publisher who sets the price (from the limited set of 2.99, $1.99, $0.99, or free). Source: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1851331&highlight= http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-ne... Notice that the big US publishers are not yet mentioned as participating.
- gdilla 13y ago
  You're right. I jumped the gun on that. But Amazon knows that consumer pressure will cajole publishers to fall in line. Also, Wholesale is a club they can wield when they negotiate with publishers to join in on matchbook.
phaus 13y ago
It would be awesome, if they weren't charging you for something you already purchased.
- dsuth 13y ago
  The convenience of having an ebook version of a $100 textbook would be worth a few bucks. Especially if I was still at Uni, lugging around 3-4 such books. I frequently buy technical books for my business now, which requires that they be hardcopy (since I haven't found any way to share ebooks legally). Having the option to also get a softcopy licence would be incredibly useful.
  - phaus 13y ago
    It's not the money, it's the principle. Including a free ebook with physical book purchases should have been established as a standard practice a long time ago.
ekianjo 13y ago
It's a good start, but something is bothering me about having to pay on top of a physical book to get the ebook. While making the ebook is not free, I'd argue it's pretty cheap to make since you need a digital version of your book anyway before making a physical product out of it, and technically speaking buying a book means buying a license to read it - so why would you have to pay twice to access the very same content ? From a license viewpoint this should be free or close to free. Or am I missing something?
rajavekedoby 13y ago
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by gdilla 13y ago

AceJohnny2 13y ago

I think Charles Stross writings on ebooks is interesting and insightful. He should know: he's a tech-savvy best-selling author. (He hangs around here too: [1]) He wrote a couple of posts a year and a half ago, they still apply. In them, he explains how Amazon is making itself a monopoly, and that isn't good for anyone but them. What's been most informative to me is how tiny publishers actually are, and how little money the author actually gets. It doesn't paint Amazon as the good guy. It's also why I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cstross https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cstross [2] http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understanding-amazons-strategy.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understa... [3] http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/more-on-drm-and-ebooks.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/more-on-...

res0nat0r 13y ago
> It's also why I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. Isn't this true, Amazon or not? Hardcovers cost the customer more than paperbacks or ebooks, so the author should be getting hopefully a larger cut of the sale. I think this program (if it has enough titles that I've bought in the past) is going to be awesome. I've never bought a Kindle because paying almost the same price for the Kindle version of a book vs. the paperback cost is ridiculous. Now with this program I will buy a Kindle so I can read my past purchases via that when I'm traveling, and my paperback versions when I'm sitting around at home. Does anyone know if you can actually use this program with used book purchases? I've bought many books used (many times for only a few bucks including shipping), so I don't know if they would be eligible for this program or not.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Hmm, I always bought the Kindle editions because physical books are a pain in the ass to read. Before the Kindle, I even resorted to a WinCE device (built-in backlight, easy rotation for any position). Kindle Paperwhite is simply the best reading experience I've ever had in my life. The fact I could get a paper version doesn't even factor into my decision. Actually, the price rarely factors into the decision, as the difference is usually only a few bucks anyways.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - mikevm 13y ago
    One of the things I hate the most about reading books is holding them up while reading. eReaders have solved this problem for me, and now I am a happy camper!
    - dsuth 13y ago
      You... don't have to hold an eReader up? One of the worst things about reading ebooks on my iPad 2 is the weight.
gdilla 13y ago
Yeah.. I didn't think that through. Amazon becoming more monopolistic isn't 'absolutely' awesome for the consumer. You're right. Heck, the price of physical books on amazon may start to creep up now - no one can compete with them for miles anyway.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  It's not absolutely awesome, but when you compare the competition, and look at Amazon's generally fantastic customer service, it does come out pretty awesomely for the consumer. Now and then I get riled up that I can't give my finished eBook to someone else, but then I remember I have Calibre and Google so it's not a big deal. (And once, when I had a problem purchasing on Amazon, I just downloaded the book and bought it a couple days later. DRM isn't really a hassle in practise.) Publishers did it to themselves, being idiotically worried about piracy, instead of pushing for standards and selling directly. They gave Amazon the market out of their own stupidity. So you can't blame Amazon for picking up on that. Maybe one day Amazon will turn around and act hostile towards customers, but so far, everyone I know has had only excellent experiences (OTOH, my overall Amazon spend is sorta high, so maybe I've got a gold star on my account). Even on the earlier Kindles, they'd overnight me replacements for damage; once they even sent an extra one and were sorta confused when I tried to return it (I hadn't paid for it).
cbr 13y ago
I buy my books hardcover now: more cash for the author. Or you could buy what's cheapest and send the difference directly to the author. (This doesn't make sense to do because there's too much friction. One way to deal with that would be to pick a random number between 0 and N and if you get 0 then send them N times that much money otherwise nothing.)
- josephjrobison 13y ago
  Would it make sense to have the normal Amazon price for Kindles books as they are now but then have an optional button to donate more that goes directly into the author's pocket and nobody else's? Of course only a small percentage would donate anything extra, but it's better than not having the option, and this can reduce a bit of the friction because it's two extra clicks at checkout. I know this has worked in some cases such as for self-published ebooks or indie games, so this could potentially work if the most hardcore fans want to directly support the author. I know for authors or musicians I really love I would want to pay more if the money went directly into their pockets.
  - secabeen 13y ago
    Maybe, but that devalues the work of everyone else who helps on a book. The editors, illustrators, layout/book designer all are skilled professionals, and deserve to be paid for their work as well. See John Scalzi's posts on why publishers are needed: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/03/why-in-fact-publishing-will-not-go-away-anytime-soon-a-deeply-slanted-play-in-three-acts/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/03/why-in-fact-publishing... http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/23/the-ebook-path-to-riches-possibly-steeper-than-assumed/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/23/the-ebook-path-to-rich...
unethical_ban 13y ago
I try not to purchase anything from Amazon if I can find an equivalent elsewhere. In the long term, a monopoly on retail is a bad thing for us, and I'm taking the long view. EDIT: Though I must say, I've always wanted a print+digital feature, and if the paperwhite is as cool as they make it look...
- garfij 13y ago
  I'm a hardcore "real book" lover, but the Paperwhite is definitely as good as they make it look. I leave it on the lowest backlight setting available and it works fantastic in all lighting situations.
- marcamillion 13y ago
  I appreciate the principled stance, but Amazon won't ever have a monopoly on retail. The internet is too big, and retail is too big, for that. Walmart, etc. would never let that happen. Besides....as much as people like online, I don't think Brick & Mortar stores will all go away. Some may, but everything won't.
  - pdpi 13y ago
    You clearly don't live in the UK. The High Street is dying, and it's online shopping that's playing headman.
    - marcamillion 13y ago
      You're right....I don't live in the UK. Either way....the OP didn't say "Amazon will be a monopoly in the UK"...he implicitly said it would have a 'monopoly on retail'. For all intents and purposes, I assumed he was talking about in Amazon's home country (or even globally given Amazon's distributed nature).
WalterBright 13y ago
Since it's trivial for an author to sell his works on his own website (and I've bought ebooks from such author sites), it's hard to see how Amazon could make itself a monopoly. Also, selling an ebook via Amazon does not preclude you from selling it yourself or through other venues.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  That might work well if you're a known author or for buyers willing to spend time digging around but it doesn't help new authors reach a mass market. Self publishing will have some sort of a positive impact on things but the reality is that large aggregators will still have a very significant role for discovery and in the mass market.
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    You're right, but my point was that if Amazon became an abusive monopoly, that would spur alternatives. BTW, I found some of those author self-sell web sites because of Reddit postings about their books. In these days of social media, I don't think the traditional gatekeeper role still applies.
- bproctor 13y ago
  Amazon has a program called KDP. If an author puts their book into the KDP program they receive 70% royalties, but they have to be exclusive on Amazon. If they don't want to be on KDP, they only receive 35% royalties, but they can sell anywhere. That's how Amazon is making itself into a monopoly. edit: I mean KDP Select, not KDP.
dredwerker 13y ago
In Australia they don't have Amazon. I guess there are other places like this too. So its not a world monopoly. I miss Amazon :)
- djt 13y ago
  we have amazon but its shipped from america which adds a lot to the price. Book Depository is good, but i believe that Amazon bought them out?
gcb0 13y ago
Everything about this is retarded. The work the author did is the same regardless of where it's printed. Yet hisincome depends on deadtrees and gasp... Hardcovers. This is exactly which should be used to generate more profit for the publisher alone... Adding value to what the author already provided. Everything in all media business is idiotic to say the least.

devx 13y ago

I don't think the agency model was bad per se, it's just that all of the publishers decided to have the same prices with the agency model, which made it very unlikely that there wasn't price fixing, since with an agency model you're supposed to compete like in the free market, and vary prices. I don't think they would've had any problems if they priced them at $10, $8, $3 and so on. But of course the greedy publishers would never do something like that. They wanted to use the agency model so they can move the prices upwards, instead of downwards.

kaolinite 13y ago

Whilst the way Amazon has been doing business is very distasteful (and I was on Apple's side in the recent DOJ trial), I can't see a problem with this offer and in fact am very pleased that a company has finally offered it. The majority of consumers are unlikely to purchase both an ebook and physical copy of the same material, so offering a slight increase in price for both seems like a win for everyone.

dsizzle 13y ago

> I speculate publishers will hate this. It seems publishers have to opt in (e.g., see comment by keltex below). (I suppose they could still hate the pressure to allow it?) Also, it seems they could make additional money with zero marginal costs.

hullo 13y ago
There are probably a number of complicated contractual issues to work out with authors even if a publisher is inclined to participate. It's no one's position here that publishers should just choose without consulting the authors, right?
- dsizzle 13y ago
  It seems authors too need to opt in (again from keltex's comment).
  - cjensen 13y ago
    When an Author opts-out of an Amazon program, Amazon sometimes opts-out of selling the Author's books. Ref: http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2011-12-15.shtml http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2011-12-15.sht... search for "ebook pricing policy"

kkowalczyk 13y ago

Actually, it doesn't look like anything to do with DOJ settlement. This program is completely voluntary for publisher - they have to sign up for it explicitly, Amazon can't just force their hand. Also, it's the publisher who sets the price (from the limited set of 2.99, $1.99, $0.99, or free). Source: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1851331&highlight= http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-ne... Notice that the big US publishers are not yet mentioned as participating.

gdilla 13y ago
You're right. I jumped the gun on that. But Amazon knows that consumer pressure will cajole publishers to fall in line. Also, Wholesale is a club they can wield when they negotiate with publishers to join in on matchbook.

phaus 13y ago

It would be awesome, if they weren't charging you for something you already purchased.

dsuth 13y ago
The convenience of having an ebook version of a $100 textbook would be worth a few bucks. Especially if I was still at Uni, lugging around 3-4 such books. I frequently buy technical books for my business now, which requires that they be hardcopy (since I haven't found any way to share ebooks legally). Having the option to also get a softcopy licence would be incredibly useful.
- phaus 13y ago
  It's not the money, it's the principle. Including a free ebook with physical book purchases should have been established as a standard practice a long time ago.

ekianjo 13y ago

It's a good start, but something is bothering me about having to pay on top of a physical book to get the ebook. While making the ebook is not free, I'd argue it's pretty cheap to make since you need a digital version of your book anyway before making a physical product out of it, and technically speaking buying a book means buying a license to read it - so why would you have to pay twice to access the very same content ? From a license viewpoint this should be free or close to free. Or am I missing something?

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