4 ms·

Can we not talk about this in terms of war and battle? It is the business of selling consumer electronics, same as it has always been. You do explain your posit

Can we not talk about this in terms of war and battle? It is the business of selling consumer electronics, same as it has always been. You do explain your position well but I feel the references to war and battle water it down. No one has been killed in the development of phones. I get that the MBA crowd read the art of war and it's practical knowledge seeped into popular discussion. But the endless reference to war in consumer electronics (and other areas not really war) is tedious and uninformative.

corresation 13y ago
Whatever your personal hangups are, words such as "battle" (an extended contest, struggle, or controversy) and "war" (a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end) are entirely and absolutely appropriate for such discussions. Your comment borders on bizarre.
- hippee-lee 13y ago
  No personal hang ups. Just expressing an opinion on the use of words that I think are overused and therefore watered down in today's environment. You clearly have a different take on it. No need to belittle me for my opinion.
- Apocryphon 13y ago
  Those combat terms assume zero-sum conflicts. There can be a situation where the smartphone OS market consists of multiple survivors, even if it's only a duopoly.
- chris_wot 13y ago
  Neither of those are the full definition of the terms mentioned. Both have connotations of violence. War is an armed conflict. Battle is a military conflict. Both have non-military meanings, but what is being said about the use the terms is not weird or bizarre.
macspoofing 13y ago
How about we use language and imagery that most people understand.
- hippee-lee 13y ago
  Is this a question or a statement? Modern battle and war have very little in common with business. So, it is my opinion that the use is such terms waters down an otherwise reasonable well thought out comment.
  - macspoofing 13y ago
    Statement. >the use of such terms waters down an otherwise reasonable well thought out comment. This may not be a battle you're going to win.
    - girvo 13y ago
      > This may not be a battle you're going to win. I think the war on this phrase has already been lost to be honest.
markb139 13y ago
It probably felt like it to the staff who got fired a couple of years back
Moto7451 13y ago
If you want to play a fun game, switch "Apple", "Google", "Microsoft", "Samsung", etc with the names of toothpaste and deodorant brands. It pretty much shows these oddly passionate arguments for what they really are: weird tech company zero sum games repackaged as religious wars. So long as any of these companies have appreciable market share and are profitable they're winning. If Apple goes out of business it'll be scrappy MS v.s. Giant Google. Or if Google goes out of business it'll be the underdog MS v.s. the 800lb Gorilla named Apple. Even AMD, who has really no business competing with Intel at this point, and also has to deal with the higher performance ARM chips manages to survive and sometimes be profitable. Ultimately none of it matters because history has shown that there's always going to be competition. And ultimately thats exactly the way we want it to be. Not a single person here should hope Apple and MS go out of business. Otherwise we might find out how evil Google is willing to be. The same holds true for the others. 90% Apple market share wouldn't be particularly good, even for the most rabid Apple fans. iPhone 5SSSSS anyone? Ultimately what I find the most amusing about the rhetoric, is that post iMac and pre iPod/iPhone, Mac users were just happy that Apple wasn't going to go out of business. Pre Android, Samsung users were happy they were buying quality air conditioners and TVs... People would do well to gain some perspective on this stuff.
- kybernetikos 13y ago
  I agree. I strongly dislike Apples locked down ecosystem and many of their offerings, but there can be no doubting that their success has been great for the industry. It's broken the MS monopoly (which has had beneficial side effects for linux too), encouraged companies to make products that aim for better than the lowest common denominator, brought UX front and center, recreated the small team of developers making software that lots of people can buy dynamic, encouraged the open web, etc. As long as we have healthy competition for these marketplaces, I don't worry about the future too much.
tripzilch 13y ago
Hey it's not just consumer electronics, Nokia used to develop DPI surveillance technology for oppressive regimes too! I can't quite decide if them being eaten by a US corporation is a good or bad thing. Nokia dearly promised[0] they wouldn't do it any more. But now all that expertise is safely owned by a US company and Nokia technically is not the same company any more, plus it's not really an oppressive regime if it's the global role model for Democracy(TM) I'm kidding, I'm kidding. They are going to make phones. I can do some creative wildly free-associating tinfoil kookery if it's buried this deep in the comments, can't I? :) [0] http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/clarification-on-nokia-siemens-networks-business-in-iran http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/clarification-on-nokia...
metageek 13y ago
Back at Netscape, Jim Barksdale hated the term "browser war", on the grounds that a war justifies extreme behavior. He didn't want us believing the browser war meant we should be breaking the normal rules.

corresation 13y ago

Whatever your personal hangups are, words such as "battle" (an extended contest, struggle, or controversy) and "war" (a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end) are entirely and absolutely appropriate for such discussions. Your comment borders on bizarre.

hippee-lee 13y ago
No personal hang ups. Just expressing an opinion on the use of words that I think are overused and therefore watered down in today's environment. You clearly have a different take on it. No need to belittle me for my opinion.
Apocryphon 13y ago
Those combat terms assume zero-sum conflicts. There can be a situation where the smartphone OS market consists of multiple survivors, even if it's only a duopoly.
chris_wot 13y ago
Neither of those are the full definition of the terms mentioned. Both have connotations of violence. War is an armed conflict. Battle is a military conflict. Both have non-military meanings, but what is being said about the use the terms is not weird or bizarre.

macspoofing 13y ago

How about we use language and imagery that most people understand.

hippee-lee 13y ago
Is this a question or a statement? Modern battle and war have very little in common with business. So, it is my opinion that the use is such terms waters down an otherwise reasonable well thought out comment.
- macspoofing 13y ago
  Statement. >the use of such terms waters down an otherwise reasonable well thought out comment. This may not be a battle you're going to win.
  - girvo 13y ago
    > This may not be a battle you're going to win. I think the war on this phrase has already been lost to be honest.

markb139 13y ago

It probably felt like it to the staff who got fired a couple of years back

Moto7451 13y ago

If you want to play a fun game, switch "Apple", "Google", "Microsoft", "Samsung", etc with the names of toothpaste and deodorant brands. It pretty much shows these oddly passionate arguments for what they really are: weird tech company zero sum games repackaged as religious wars. So long as any of these companies have appreciable market share and are profitable they're winning. If Apple goes out of business it'll be scrappy MS v.s. Giant Google. Or if Google goes out of business it'll be the underdog MS v.s. the 800lb Gorilla named Apple. Even AMD, who has really no business competing with Intel at this point, and also has to deal with the higher performance ARM chips manages to survive and sometimes be profitable. Ultimately none of it matters because history has shown that there's always going to be competition. And ultimately thats exactly the way we want it to be. Not a single person here should hope Apple and MS go out of business. Otherwise we might find out how evil Google is willing to be. The same holds true for the others. 90% Apple market share wouldn't be particularly good, even for the most rabid Apple fans. iPhone 5SSSSS anyone? Ultimately what I find the most amusing about the rhetoric, is that post iMac and pre iPod/iPhone, Mac users were just happy that Apple wasn't going to go out of business. Pre Android, Samsung users were happy they were buying quality air conditioners and TVs... People would do well to gain some perspective on this stuff.

kybernetikos 13y ago
I agree. I strongly dislike Apples locked down ecosystem and many of their offerings, but there can be no doubting that their success has been great for the industry. It's broken the MS monopoly (which has had beneficial side effects for linux too), encouraged companies to make products that aim for better than the lowest common denominator, brought UX front and center, recreated the small team of developers making software that lots of people can buy dynamic, encouraged the open web, etc. As long as we have healthy competition for these marketplaces, I don't worry about the future too much.

tripzilch 13y ago

Hey it's not just consumer electronics, Nokia used to develop DPI surveillance technology for oppressive regimes too! I can't quite decide if them being eaten by a US corporation is a good or bad thing. Nokia dearly promised[0] they wouldn't do it any more. But now all that expertise is safely owned by a US company and Nokia technically is not the same company any more, plus it's not really an oppressive regime if it's the global role model for Democracy(TM) I'm kidding, I'm kidding. They are going to make phones. I can do some creative wildly free-associating tinfoil kookery if it's buried this deep in the comments, can't I? :) [0] http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/clarification-on-nokia-siemens-networks-business-in-iran http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/clarification-on-nokia...

metageek 13y ago

Back at Netscape, Jim Barksdale hated the term "browser war", on the grounds that a war justifies extreme behavior. He didn't want us believing the browser war meant we should be breaking the normal rules.