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Agreed re: Samsung. With this new acquisition, Microsoft now has the ability to control the entire mobile phone experience -- something Apple has had huge succe

by kyro 13y ago

Agreed re: Samsung. With this new acquisition, Microsoft now has the ability to control the entire mobile phone experience -- something Apple has had huge success doing for years now. They'll have a high-quality platform to promote their app store and create an interesting ecosystem. This'll also create a distinct image in consumer's minds of what the Microsoft Phone is, similar to what we imagine when we think of the Apple iPhone. Google doesn't have that control, and that puts them at a disadvantage. If I were Google, I would be looking for ways to create a very clear image of what it means to be using a Google Phone that doesn't include X number of vendor handsets running X^^2 versions of Android.

asdfs 13y ago
Google has Motorola and the Nexus line. As for Microsoft, their spectacular failure with the Surface suggests that having control of both hardware and software does not necessarily result in success.
- kyro 13y ago
  The Nexus line is in no way establishing a cohesive Google experience. Most opt for Samsung or HTC. Regarding the Surface: you're right, it flopped. Difference here is that Microsoft is bringing in the talent, experience, and quality product to make a more serious attempt at mobile.
  - wyclif 13y ago
    Most opt for Samsung or HTC ...but that's price fragmentation, not a commentary on the 'cohesiveness' of the Nexus 4, which is a brilliant device.
    - kyro 13y ago
      It's a commentary on the fragmented nature of the Google mobile experience.
      - mcintyre1994 13y ago
        'The' Google mobile experience is surely the Nexus line? Opting out of it doesn't fragment it, it simply makes it more niche. Is your argument not similar to saying iOS is fragmented because most people opt for Android?
noisy_boy 13y ago
Microsoft has already done that end-to-end experience thing with Surface and that didn't turn out all that well. Windows phone has been critically acclaimed but that hasn't really made much dent on the IPhone/Android duopoly. And the relatively more successful windows phone devices aren't exactly sub-standard, infact they are quite high quality handsets made by the same manufacturer they just acquired. I'm doubtful how much of incremental improvement end-to-end will do this case.
- mynameisvlad 13y ago
  Surface was a failure in marketing, not the devices themselves (okay, Surface RT was pretty bad). The hardware is great, and people love it, and the Surface Pro is really useful for students and even small time developers, and people generally really love it after playing with one.
  - noisy_boy 13y ago
    For Surface, in my opinion, it was an UI which looked nothing like what people expect from "Windows" (not saying it was bad) combined with hardware that was not appealing in terms of specs vs price. So I don't think the hardware is that great. E.g. 64 GB Surface Pro is now selling for around 900 USD; after deducing space taken by OS, the free space is literally an insult considering the price. If you sell it to me as a full computer, the specs just don't stack up. If you sell it to me as a tablet, it is way too pricey when I can get a significant portion of functionality from a more portable Galaxy-class tablet at a much lower price point. Not sure if marketing can fix this.
moca 13y ago
You missed a critical issue. Carriers don't like fully controlled verticals like Apple, as they don't want to compete on a fair battle ground. Apple is too powerful in US today, but no carrier wants another Apple. Several friends from Microsoft said this over past couple of years. Another issue is Microsoft does not have profitable consumer services other than Xbox. Even Microsoft can integrate a lot of its services with Windows Phone, it is a big money sink until Microsoft can make profit on search, maps, outlook.com, skydrive, etc. They have tried for over a decade by now. In the end, I really like to see 3-way competition between Apple, Google, Microsoft.
- gnaffle 13y ago
  This is exactly the issue. And not only in the US, but elsewhere as well. In my country, you pretty much never see operators promote the iPhone, but you see constant TV advertising for Android phones. Carriers only carry the iPhone because they have to in order to not lose customers. The only way for Microsoft to entice carriers is to bend over backwards with deals, promotions and letting them customize the phone. Which was exactly what Microsoft was trying to avoid by copying the "we're calling the shots" way of Apple. The other option, of course, is to make a phone that is so desirable that customers will start demanding it. So far, WP8 is not that phone. Partly because it's _not_ so much better than iPhone or Android, and partly, perhaps, because people's not so positive association with the Windows brand ("isn't that the thing that always needs updating?").

by kyro 13y ago

asdfs 13y ago

Google has Motorola and the Nexus line. As for Microsoft, their spectacular failure with the Surface suggests that having control of both hardware and software does not necessarily result in success.

kyro 13y ago
The Nexus line is in no way establishing a cohesive Google experience. Most opt for Samsung or HTC. Regarding the Surface: you're right, it flopped. Difference here is that Microsoft is bringing in the talent, experience, and quality product to make a more serious attempt at mobile.
- wyclif 13y ago
  Most opt for Samsung or HTC ...but that's price fragmentation, not a commentary on the 'cohesiveness' of the Nexus 4, which is a brilliant device.
  - kyro 13y ago
    It's a commentary on the fragmented nature of the Google mobile experience.
    - mcintyre1994 13y ago
      'The' Google mobile experience is surely the Nexus line? Opting out of it doesn't fragment it, it simply makes it more niche. Is your argument not similar to saying iOS is fragmented because most people opt for Android?

noisy_boy 13y ago

Microsoft has already done that end-to-end experience thing with Surface and that didn't turn out all that well. Windows phone has been critically acclaimed but that hasn't really made much dent on the IPhone/Android duopoly. And the relatively more successful windows phone devices aren't exactly sub-standard, infact they are quite high quality handsets made by the same manufacturer they just acquired. I'm doubtful how much of incremental improvement end-to-end will do this case.

mynameisvlad 13y ago
Surface was a failure in marketing, not the devices themselves (okay, Surface RT was pretty bad). The hardware is great, and people love it, and the Surface Pro is really useful for students and even small time developers, and people generally really love it after playing with one.
- noisy_boy 13y ago
  For Surface, in my opinion, it was an UI which looked nothing like what people expect from "Windows" (not saying it was bad) combined with hardware that was not appealing in terms of specs vs price. So I don't think the hardware is that great. E.g. 64 GB Surface Pro is now selling for around 900 USD; after deducing space taken by OS, the free space is literally an insult considering the price. If you sell it to me as a full computer, the specs just don't stack up. If you sell it to me as a tablet, it is way too pricey when I can get a significant portion of functionality from a more portable Galaxy-class tablet at a much lower price point. Not sure if marketing can fix this.

moca 13y ago

You missed a critical issue. Carriers don't like fully controlled verticals like Apple, as they don't want to compete on a fair battle ground. Apple is too powerful in US today, but no carrier wants another Apple. Several friends from Microsoft said this over past couple of years. Another issue is Microsoft does not have profitable consumer services other than Xbox. Even Microsoft can integrate a lot of its services with Windows Phone, it is a big money sink until Microsoft can make profit on search, maps, outlook.com, skydrive, etc. They have tried for over a decade by now. In the end, I really like to see 3-way competition between Apple, Google, Microsoft.

gnaffle 13y ago
This is exactly the issue. And not only in the US, but elsewhere as well. In my country, you pretty much never see operators promote the iPhone, but you see constant TV advertising for Android phones. Carriers only carry the iPhone because they have to in order to not lose customers. The only way for Microsoft to entice carriers is to bend over backwards with deals, promotions and letting them customize the phone. Which was exactly what Microsoft was trying to avoid by copying the "we're calling the shots" way of Apple. The other option, of course, is to make a phone that is so desirable that customers will start demanding it. So far, WP8 is not that phone. Partly because it's _not_ so much better than iPhone or Android, and partly, perhaps, because people's not so positive association with the Windows brand ("isn't that the thing that always needs updating?").