No, thank you for the reply. I hope I didn't come across as mr gloom. Concrete answers - * The 150 - 250 is the rate a junior is charged out at. Seniors are 5

No, thank you for the reply. I hope I didn't come across as mr gloom. Concrete answers - * The 150 - 250 is the rate a junior is charged out at. Seniors are 500-1000. Usually the customer actually gets a quote for 1 senior : 2 junior, i.e. say 450 a day. * Most people here work normal hours most of the time, although some people and projects do work a more. The project I've been on the past 6 months has a lot of crunch time, so I feel like 'people here work long hours', but actually 'my team work long hours'. And yes, not paying overtime on a project that needs it is a bit yuck. Regarding pay, the sense I get is that outside finance, new programmers get 25-30k depending on quality, and after about 5 years, get 30-40k. These are actually very comfortable salaries, depending on where you live. Pay at this place is strangely poor, given that I think the people I work with are actually quite good. I posted that because I read on HN, or around the net, a lot of people saying things like '6 figure salaries', or 'I quite my job as a finance quant because programming pays better'. Not round here it don't. I'm fine with that. I'm glad I get to spend my days playing a beautifully convoluted puzzle game, or imagining things and then making them happen. I just get wierded out by the disconnect I'm seeing.